The very first time I met Eniola, I asked her how much she paid for her house. Although she was a little surprised by the question, she graciously answered me, and we were able to have a money conversation about real estate costs and options in our area.
While social conventions sometimes discourage this kind of discussion, I’ve found that casual money conversations between friends allow us to share financial information and experiences that give each of us more clarity and power as we navigate our own financial circumstances, like negotiating an interest rate or asking for a salary increase.
In today’s episode, Eniola and I reflect on our first conversation which gave Eniola insight on housing prices in our area and the discussion that helped Eniola to negotiate a higher salary at her new job, as well as a more recent chat we had that convinced Eniola to raise her consultation rate.
If you want to make the financial decisions that are the most beneficial to you, then information is power. My conversation with Eniola today will convince you that having money conversations and exchanging financial knowledge with those around you will empower you to take control of your financial life and achieve the results you desire.
In this episode, you’ll learn…
- [08:23] How open conversations about money allow us to make better informed decisions, especially around housing costs and financing options
- [15:35] How discussing salary negotiations with a friend helped Eniola get substantial salary increase as she started a new job
- [29:42] Why who you choose to discuss money with can change depending on your season of life
- [34:34] How asking your friends and colleagues “What don’t I know?” can lead to new financial insights, like career development opportunities
- [38:32] How asking questions allows you to discover new financial opportunities, like uncovering pay scales or per diem resources from your employer
Tune in to this episode of Money Files to hear my friend Eniola and I chat about having honest money conversations and how these chats have improved our financial lives.
Are you ready to have an open, honest money conversation? Apply to work with me, and let’s start working towards your financial goals.
Transcript for “An Honest Money Conversation with My Friend Eniola:”
[00:00:02] Keina Newell Hi and welcome to Money Files. I’m Keina Newell from Wealth Over Now. I work every day with professional women and solopreneur producers to help them get out of financial overwhelm and shame so they can experience more flexibility and ease with their finances. Are you ready to gain confidence and learn to manage your finances intentionally? Tune in and grab financial tips that will help you master the way you think about and manage your finances.
Hi and welcome back to another episode of Money Files. So this week or in this episode, I should say I am doing something that I thought would be fun because I encourage people to have money conversations with their friends. I think that talking about money is a great way to shape how you think and how you feel about your finances. So today I’m going to talk to my friend Eniola. Hi, how are you?
[00:00:56] Eniola Akinrinade I’m wonderful. How are you?
[00:00:58] Keina Newell I’m good. She’ll probably tell you that she was bullied into this conversation because a couple, maybe like two weeks ago, I was like, oh, do you want to come on my podcast and have a money conversation? And she gave me a very dramatic pause and I told her the answer is yes.
[00:01:14] Eniola Akinrinade And here I am. Against my will. Yes.
[00:01:19] Keina Newell Which may be how a lot of my friendships go, but it’s we we’ve made we make it work. And I think she was asking like, what are we going to talk about? So I think what’s interesting and what everybody will find interesting is I’ll tell you how we met. I think it’s a beautiful story.
[00:01:34] Eniola Akinrinade Poetic.
[00:01:35] Keina Newell So Eniola and I we met in the vestibule.
[00:01:38] Eniola Akinrinade No one uses that word. No one uses that word.
[00:01:43] Keina Newell Our hairstylist, we have a mutual hairstylist I always like to call the hair salon hairdresser or whatever, the lady who because our hair is the same woman and we met one day, actually just a few months ago, I think it was like an April.
[00:01:57] Eniola Akinrinade I looked at the transcripts actually was April 22nd, approximately 5:40 p.m. of our Lord 2022.
[00:02:04] Keina Newell So it was in the evening, it was not the evening certainly when they open that late. So that’s not true. Your time is wrong.
[00:02:12] Eniola Akinrinade No, it’s not. There’s a time stamp on this.
[00:02:14] Keina Newell No, that was a text message after afterwards because I said, well, anyways, Eniola basically told me that we could be friends and I was like, Oh, I’m not sure that I really want to meet new people. But then did you message me on Instagram?
[00:02:28] Eniola Akinrinade Yes. I’m actually glad you’re asking this question because again, I have written yes, I messaged you on Instagram at 5:40 p.m. and then in that message I gave you my number. Fast forward a month and a half. It was my birthday. Happy birthday to me on Instagram and said, Oh, I’ll still send you my number. So at least for a month and a half I was still in a holding. I was in the vestibule of your heart in a holding period while you decided if we could actually be friends. And sometime after that I passed.
[00:02:57] Keina Newell Here’s this secret: I identify as an introvert, even though I will talk to strangers. And I also realized sometimes in talk and speaking with strangers, I may be too forward. And I’m like, Oh, that could be crazy. So let me actually scale back. Right?
[00:03:14] Keina Newell And so you approached me with this phone number to be friends and I’m like, Oh, we don’t know. We only shared like a common experience in the vestibule, you know? And then we went our own separate ways to get our haircut. And so I went off to Hawaii. I don’t even know how I knew about your birthday. But anyways, I do. I feel like we talked probably also in the vestibule or somewhere, I don’t know, in our salon experience. But all that to say that we’ve only known each other a few months and I have most definitely already spoken to you about.
[00:03:49] Eniola Akinrinade Yes. Yeah. You asked for the cost of my house the day we met.
[00:03:53] Keina Newell It wasn’t the day we met. I think that’s actually what we went to Happy Hour.
[00:03:58] Eniola Akinrinade No we were in the vestibule but we hadn’t even made it into the actual salon. We’re in the vestibule. How much does your house cost?
[00:04:03] Eniola Akinrinade Oh, okay. What was your name again?
[00:04:06] Keina Newell We’re not quite like that.
[00:04:08] Eniola Akinrinade It was probably.
[00:04:09] Keina Newell Because. So I’m going to add some more context because we were sitting in the vestibule waiting to be scanned in for COVID protocol. And you were saying that you were moving to the area and that you just thought a home which did leave a wide open door for me to say. How much did you pay for your help?
[00:04:30] Eniola Akinrinade What?
[00:04:30] Eniola Akinrinade With you? Yes, with ordinary people. That door was not open. But maybe that’s what we’re talking about today.
[00:04:38] Keina Newell This conversation is exactly how I vision. But, yeah, no. So, yes, I guess that was our first money conversation. And I clearly am not scared to have conversations like this with people. And you told me how much you paid for your home. I don’t really remember, but I probably told you how much I paid for my home as well, because I think we were talking about like new construction and I knew you were doing new construction, so I felt like I had something to offer you in the conversation.
[00:05:07] Eniola Akinrinade Yes, I think I asked back, which is not a question I would normally ask. But, you know, as we’ve since discussed, the cost of your home is this public information? So it’s not like, you know, mind your own business. Like I’ll figure it out if I want to type things. So I didn’t really think it was secretive, but I will say that people don’t generally ask me that.
[00:05:27] Keina Newell Yeah.
[00:05:29] Eniola Akinrinade You may have been the first.
[00:05:35] Keina Newell yeah, I think I’m just always really curious about numbers and I’m not scared to go there and in that and ask me about home prices. Right. Like that is public information. You hadn’t bought it yet, so I wouldn’t have been able to find out the exact amount because they publish all of that on like Zillow.com. Yeah, that that is a very normal conversation to me because I do feel like especially here, like we’re in the DMV area and I’m always curious about how much people are paying and not even I think oftentimes people think like people are being nosy, I guess. And for me it’s like really out of curiosity because of the housing market always like kind of going up or down.
[00:06:16] Eniola Akinrinade So that makes sense.
[00:06:17] Keina Newell Maybe I should apologize for.
[00:06:20] Eniola Akinrinade Would you like to do that now?
[00:06:23] Eniola Akinrinade Or wait till after after the call? But yeah, no, but that information is helpful, especially, you know, if I were still considering whether to buy and whatnot, because you’ve been in this area longer than I have. So you had a new build? I have a new build. But you had bought it at a time earlier than I did. And even people in this neighborhood paid less for the same. You know, I have a townhouse, so it’s pretty cookie cutter people who got this exact same townhouse that I did paid less depending on when they bought it. And so the information is relevant and it’s especially relevant if you’re looking around, I suppose, or you could just be curious and fact finding and collecting information from people in vestibules, whichever one floats your boat, you know, that’s you.
[00:07:05] Keina Newell But I clearly I felt very comfortable with you to ask you that. But I will say no, this was after so after we met, I was going to say a couple of months before that conversation. But no, a couple of weeks later, I was with one of my other girlfriends and I think I shared this story with you as I was one of my other girlfriends and I had met one of her girlfriends. We had been hanging out together for several hours. Seemed acceptable. We were like in the car together. We had actually taken an Uber to her house. So going back to this like public information statement, right.
[00:07:37] Eniola Akinrinade This the friend of the friend’s house.
[00:07:39] Keina Newell Yes, I have your address. But anyways, we were in the car. And I’m always curious to like just in different neighborhoods where like I have friends that vote in D.C., gosh, maybe 10 to 15 years ago. So their homes have increased maybe like 300%.
[00:07:59] Eniola Akinrinade Right.
[00:07:59] Keina Newell Doubled. Tripled in price. And this particular young woman was talking about the fact that her house had increased and she had a lot of equity in her home. When I casually sat in the car. Oh, how much did you buy your house for? She didn’t hear me. And my friend was like, Keina that is rude.
And I’m like, but is it rude? And I get both sides of it. Like, I’m not naive. I get both sides of the conversation. But then I started having a conversation. I was like, for a living, I do financial coaching and I really think that we should talk more about money. And I understand how people don’t want to talk about salaries, you don’t want to talk about debt, but like that is really public information. And even like within this, I mean, for me, I was like, oh, we kind of have this like intimate group. But to be able to think about, I think where the conversation goes from there, there’s a lot of different ways, whether it’s like, Oh, like have you thought about leveraging the equity within your home or how are you kind of thinking about navigating the situation? Especially because I think like that’s kind of my when I think about my home and selling it or do I want to hold my house and rent it. Like those are the different levels of conversations that I’ve had with different people in my life when it comes to real estate specifically. But she did not appreciate me asking about the price, from.
[00:09:19] Eniola Akinrinade What I gather, is that you ask people this question when they’re in confined spaces with you, like moving vehicles, vestibules. So it’s just so if we’re out in the open, we’re probably safe. But if we’re in a confined space, like get ready to answer the questions. Yes, because.
[00:09:35] Keina Newell Keina might ask you how much your house is. So I do know because we were talking about you buying your home and we have talked about like money conversations with friends. But like what what have you shared, I guess, about your journey in buying a house with like other people within your circle that may or may not touch on money?
[00:09:51] Eniola Akinrinade So I have no problem telling my friends or the people I’m having conversations with about how much I paid and about how much the house is in the area have been. And what I saw on that fluctuation, because I feel like it’s an opportunity for them. Well, let me back up. I have a lot of friends who are in the same place as me where we’re just buying our first homes and or building our first homes and things of that nature. And I feel like it’s only beneficial to them to give them a price point or some perspective on the process that I’ve had to go through because I didn’t know anything. It’s my first home. Everyone has a first home, you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know. So I’m happy to share that information. And I, I mean, I’ll tell them anything that they need to know. And again, because the information is public, at the end of the day, like I can say, like, oh, if I want to add a bathroom, there was a rough in and it would have cost 5000 extra dollars or whatever it might have been or like, Oh, if I get the smaller version of this house, like I saved $200,000 or whatever, and it wasn’t a discount like that otherwise. But you know, like that information I feel like can allow them to make an informed decision and have that information been available to me. And sometimes it was right. It would help me make my decisions as well. So but when it comes to homes, speak freely about cost and all things of that nature. And it’s not an issue for me at least.
[00:11:13] Keina Newell Well, just like what you’re talking about, right? Like this is my first home purchase or was my first home purchase. I’ve been here. Gosh, I clearly can’t do math right now. Seven, eight years, eight years. And I think about all the things that I learned. So I was like going through this process that my parents had bought homes. So like they had some context and knowledge. But then thinking like me living in a very high cost of living area, they didn’t have the same context because their house didn’t cost as much as my did. They were in Oklahoma. And so you can get like, you know, 20 acres and a mansion for $10. Horses in the backyard. And here they are like, how much are you paying? What’s happening?
But I remember going through this homebuying process and one of the things initially I was looking at an FHA loan. I wonder, I can’t remember if we talked about this, but initially I was looking at a FHA alone, which was like 3.5% down. And then around that was around the time I was buying. What was happening was like, you could no longer get out of the PMI. There used to be a like a provision for you to get out of the PMI. And so the company that I was buying my home with, they had introduced me to a conventional loan. And so with the conventional loan or this particular conventional loan, you could put 5% down with no PMI, which is like something that I hadn’t heard about. So you wouldn’t have any like property mortgage insurance for anybody who’s listening, which is basically like a penalty because you didn’t put 20% down, which if you’re buying a house, that’s. 400, $500,000, 20% can be a lot of money to put down.
[00:12:49] Eniola Akinrinade Right? Casually.
[00:12:50] Keina Newell Yes. Especially when you’re trying to be like, okay, I got these ten pennies over here. Another stack of $10 bills over here. Right. Like making all that up. So I’d like that is the number one thing that I think I’ve shared with people that are going to buy a home. Since I learned that, like, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And so being able to tell people, hey, ask your lender about a conventional loan, 5% down with no PMI or even knowing. Another thing that I learned was that you could negotiate your interest rate, which I didn’t realize. I mean, I learned that going through the process. But these are all things that I think about that I learned because I was open to having a money conversation. And for me it’s always about like paying it forward.
[00:13:32] Eniola Akinrinade Right. Now that makes a lot of sense. And I think that, you know, you’re talking about money conversations in the context that I was considering a house, let’s just say it was an experience. Conversation included money costs. And you know, you just mentioned interest and that was a whole situation for me. I didn’t know anything about interest and lock in your rate and A, B, C and D and I actually was working with someone who I think was discriminating against me actually, and put me in a really bad situation. And I bought my house, you know, when interest rates started skyrocketing, right? Like quote unquote, past pandemic or post-pandemic, whatever that is. And so like those lessons I definitely pass to my friends, you know, like, so you lock your interest rate, like you can buy it down, you can do A, B, C and D and again, those are relevant to money. But I didn’t see them as money conversations as much as it was house conversations, because within that it’s also like, don’t forget to get a security system and, you know, unrelated things as well. But I do think it’s all very beneficial and very much like you said, about paying it forward no matter what the conversation is, because you don’t know what you don’t know. And if you’ve learned, why not help someone that you care about or are friends with or whatever?
[00:14:43] Keina Newell Yeah, I just like I like the fact that you said it was like an experience conversation, because I think you can really put that around any money conversation because another conversation that we’ve had, that’s experience based, if you will. We were talking I think the thing that made me want to have a conversation with you and just like put this on my podcast once again, going back to like experiences is that we had talked about in a totally unrelated conversation that you could negotiate severance. Like if you were fired from a job that you can negotiate your severance.
[00:15:16] Eniola Akinrinade Right or right? I don’t.
[00:15:17] Keina Newell Know. Listen, listen. Let me make sure I’m like, is it fired or if you were terminated, whatever the legal term may be. But I was telling you, I was like, dang, Eniola, I don’t think I had ever thought about that, nor would I have known that if like I wouldn’t having this conversation with you.
[00:15:35] Eniola Akinrinade Right. Right. And that’s something that a lot of people don’t know. And, I mean, as a general rule, every conversation you have at work about money is negotiable. Like it’s always everything’s negotiable, you know? So just to clarify, if you were fired for cause because you’re embezzling from your company, you don’t have you know, you don’t have bargaining power. Okay. Like, you need to collect your belongings and go.
[00:15:58] Eniola Akinrinade Okay. But you just not.
[00:16:03] Eniola Akinrinade Don’t be like, oh, I heard this one girl talk it. No, I didn’t think that. Please don’t embezzle from your employer, please. But, you know, like let’s say let’s say let’s say you have a situation at work where things aren’t going well and or you’re just uncomfortable that you feel like your boss doesn’t like you or whatever. And your boss is now agreeing with you to have you exit. Right. So first of all, you might have a claim there. We’re going to talk about that on another episode.
[00:16:32] Eniola Akinrinade Okay for Another Time. But a lot of times your employer will in that instance because they don’t want you to sue them or whatever, they’ll give you a severance and a severance. Is that because they think that you have a claim against them or because you did A, B, C and D, but just because they’re like, it’s easier to just pay you out and you waiver rights against the company and go away as an employee or in that case, a former employee or transitioning employee. Of course, you would just think, okay, let me just take this and go.
[00:16:58] Keina Newell I would take my money, but. All right. They didn’t give me an F, but.
[00:17:01] Eniola Akinrinade Okay. And sometimes they’ll give you enough if they think there’s something you. Yeah, but, you know, it’s a, it’s a fairly common practice to just give people something to get a waiver and have them leave. And so that is negotiable. If you had a secret claim that you hadn’t told them about before or whatever, like you can come back and say, this is not enough money. The conversation that we were having earlier was, you know, in situations where you’re doing dealing with like if you as an employee are caught up in like a reduction in force or if you’re caught up in a termination, not for a cause and not a reduction in force, and they give you the severance. You may think that there’s nothing you can do about it, but there is always room for negotiation. I will compare it to negotiating your salary when you’re being brought on board. A lot of people think you can’t negotiate that. Like, this is your salary. You’re making $50,000. Do you want to join or not? But there’s always room for negotiation, which is something that I have to learn myself. Pretty recently, in fact.
[00:18:00] Keina Newell We talked about, oh, we’re going to talk about that next.
[00:18:03] Eniola Akinrinade Week. Yeah, everything’s negotiable. And so just as a last point on that, you know, when we’re talking about negotiating things in the workplace, especially if something is not negotiable, I know we’re talking about money. You will know pretty quickly, like, hey, I want to raise I want to raise at my job. I want an extra $5,000. If they can’t do it, they will say, no, we can’t do it. It’s not possible. Like this is what it is, but that’s usually not going to happen. Usually what you get is well, let me see, you know, let me check it out. We got to wait till comp season. But if you don’t get to know, then you have yes, there’s room for negotiation here. Generally, if people can’t do it, they’ll tell you.
[00:18:38] Keina Newell Oh, once again, the money experience.
[00:18:42] Eniola Akinrinade The money experience.
[00:18:43] Keina Newell Right. Or buying experience, whatever it is. So maybe I like that language. Whoever is listening, you can be talking about your experiences because there is a lot to be learned through experiences, right? Either what you should or shouldn’t do or things that you can just like put away for later and put them into your, like, little mental filing cabinet. So you actually have something to help you at some other point in time. But I forgot we had this negotiation conversation as well.
[00:19:11] Eniola Akinrinade That negotiating salary.
[00:19:13] Keina Newell Negotiating salary, which actually if you’re listening, there’s a podcast with a former client, Kim Finch. She actually works with women on negotiating their salaries. But we had talked all about like how negotiating is a form of communication so we can link back to Kim’s episode. So people also have a resource for negotiating salaries if that’s something that they want to do any. When we were talking about your experience, what you’ve learned because it’s not a money conversation ours and call it a money experience as well.
[00:19:51] Keina Newell What have you learned in terms of negotiating? And I also want to underscore this part of our conversation, because I think a lot of us have different experiences depending on like, oh, I’ve been to grad school or I haven’t been to grad school. I work in nonprofit, I don’t work in nonprofit, I work in corporate America, whatever that may look like. But I think that there is room, regardless of where you are, to be able to know that you should feel really empowered to negotiate your salary beyond that. Yes. So what’s been your experience?
[00:20:23] Eniola Akinrinade So I have a fairly unique experience where, you know, in terms of my career, things are fairly lockstep. So the reason I didn’t negotiate my salary prior to this point was because I knew that, you know, you have this much experience. This is your job. Like you might be within like $5,000 of ADC, but like this is it’s fairly lockstep, however, at my current job. Well, you know what? Two jobs ago, I moved out of that lockstep environment, and I remember that I was living in California and in California offering legal advice. But in California, if you ask at the current time, if you ask your the salary range for a job, they are required to tell you, and maybe you might say, how much does this job pay? And they maybe can’t tell you this job pays 55 K or whatever. But they have to disclose to you that the band for this job is is 50 to 60 K and that’s actually happened in a lot of different states right now. It has to be written down on their job postings and stuff. But anyway, so I was at that job and I asked the salary range for that job. And you know, they told me what it was like. Let’s say it’s 50 to 60000, whatever. And I remember when I got the job offer, I was like, okay, well, I want 60,000. And they were like, No, but they’re like, That is for someone with more experience that is not you and blah blah, blah, blah. And so I kind of agreed with whatever it was that they were giving me at the time, and it was fine. However, when I was coming to the job I have now, I didn’t ask the band what the information wasn’t available to me, and I was given a salary amount and I knew that there was room for negotiation because everything could be negotiated. But I hadn’t ever negotiated the job before. And so I had asked a friend to give me advice to help me, and that friend had negotiated his salary. And what he told me was, at this point you have a job offer, right? So they want you. And I know how much it takes to like interview a new person and like restart the search and whatever. So I agreed with him there like they want you is like you need to know your worth, right? So he said don’t just ask for you know, they offered you 50 K don’t just ask for 60 K, ask for baby k and let them know that the reason why is because this is how much you know you were being bailed out of the previous job. This is what you intend to do. This is the value you brings to the team and essentially explain why you’re asking for what you’re asking for. And if they can’t do it, they’ll say no. And I remember he coached me. He’s not he’s not a financial coach. He’s just he’s just a friend. But he sat me, coach me, me, scripted my conversation out. And I went and I asked for whatever I asked for. And I was talking to the recruiter at the time and he was very honest. He’s like, you know, you’re asking for 80 K, he’s like The most I’m going to probably be able to get you is 75. But since we, you know, originally offered me 50 or whatever, you know, this is all hypothetical at this point but like are made up numbers. But because they had offered me 50, I was like, I’ll take the 75 if I can get it. And I was successful in that negotiation in that regard. And I’ve helped other people now have those conversations as well because you don’t know what you don’t know. And as black people, black and brown people, we don’t generally my experience and you know, the stats say that we don’t generally ask for the things that we deserve. You know, we’re not taught that we we don’t we don’t know there’s room for negotiation. So that particular conversation was extremely helpful for me and it’s probably changed my life, my life in this respect and I will continue to use that advice moving forward.
[00:23:52] Keina Newell Yeah, and especially you’re talking about black and brown people, but then also women because women have this. So what I find is that there is this mentality of like, I’ll prove myself and then I’ll ask for more. And I know one of the things that I learned was like in moving from one job to the next, like your best opportunity to increase your salary is right there in those beginning stages where you’re forming a relationship with that company where you could potentially ask for a 20,000, 30, 40, $50 pay increase from your last job. And like when I hear you talking about your friend coaching you, it’s really about building that belief that like you are going to feel comfortable, you can feel comfortable and actually saying like, no, this like if you want me to work here and add value to your company, then this is the price.
[00:24:46] Eniola Akinrinade Right? One of the other things that I thought was really interesting was, you know, when I used to live in Dallas, I had a group I mean, most of my network were like Black attorneys, right? And so and we were similar in experience, maybe, let’s call it like the same year we graduated the same year. And then the oldest person or the most senior person graduated like five or six years prior. Right? And we had this environment, this informal culture, where we would all talk to each other about our salaries, like, I’m going to get this new job and here’s the band that they put me at or here’s my lockstep, here’s whatever. And the reason why we did it, you know, this was informal, wasn’t like we had like this group, but like, you know, the reason why we did it was because we were like, as black attorneys, we don’t want to go somewhere and get paid less because we’re black or because we’re women. So to keep ourselves honest and to know what the market rate is, you know, especially for people who weren’t in that lockstep kind of. Your capacity. I want to know what you’re being paid at your job. You know, and you graduated three years before me. So, you know, is this lockstep accurate? Does this look good to you? This is the work I’m doing. Like this is how much I’m being paid for you for it. Does that sound familiar? And even the friend who coached me on the job, the part I just discussed, it coached me on how to negotiate my salary. You know, he had to disclose his salary to me. You know, he was one year more experienced than I was, but he was doing different work, you know, similar but different work. And so we had to discuss, like what he was being paid and what I was being offered. And what I was being offered was already more than he was making, you know, and he still had to help me. But being able to have those honest discussions are really beneficial. And I and I have friends now who are trying to change careers. They’re going from law firms to companies, and they’re trying to figure out like, Well, this is how much I get paid at the law firm. I’m making all this money. What kind of a pay cut am I going to suffer? Because it is a cut relationship, you know, kind of a pay cut. Am I going to have to suffer? And this, that and the other people can’t make informed decisions without having the information necessary to make those decisions. And you as a person with a job, with money, with whatever are the is the only person who is able to provide the information to the next person. So now I don’t go around, you know, on Instagram, hey, guys, this is my salary. Like, everyone doesn’t need to know. But I feel like when you have relationships with certain people, it’s not only okay but probably beneficial for the collective to share information like that.
[00:27:11] Keina Newell And I think that that’s what’s important is right like having these conversations is also about having these conversations with people that you trust or can learn to trust in. And some of them may be friends, some of them may be coworkers. I know when I was in education, I always talk to my boss about money and I think I just had a always and I don’t care.
[00:27:36] Eniola Akinrinade I can see that.
[00:27:38] Keina Newell But I think that’s also because I went to school for like management and finance and I interviewed like in the oil and gas companies before I actually did Teach for America. And that world is completely different than like nonprofit. And I just got a small taste of it where they want to wine and dine you. So I adopted that mindset when I went into education. Excuse me, I’m Keina. Here I am.
[00:28:03] Keina Newell And I guess I just was like never embarrassed to have that conversation because I just think, like, you don’t ask, nobody is going to willingly offer it to you. Right? And so I just always question how much I’m getting paid or when am I going to be able to be paid this other amount that I actually desire to be paid and I’ve made decisions based off of what my financial needs were at the time. And I want more people to be in a position to do that. So you don’t just feel like you’re at the mercy of whoever’s writing the pay scale.
[00:28:36] Eniola Akinrinade Right. And I will say that, like, I’m not as. I’m not you. So, you know, it’s not as easy for me to go up to someone that I don’t know well or have a reason to have a relationship with. Right. So, you know, I think part of like mentorship programs like an event, not for like a long term, like Big Brothers, Big Sisters thing, although I’ve done that too. But like I’ve had like mentorship programs where I’ve been matched up with someone for an event coming up in three months and they’re always like legal based and like. And inevitably the person I’m matched up with is always like, I’m thinking of changing firms, I’m thinking of going in-house, I’m thinking of doing this, thinking of doing that. And I’ll say, I’m going to be honest with you, this is how much you get paid doing legal and entertainment. This is how much you get paid doing legal and like a non entertainment company, this is the lockstep for law firms and this is how much I’ve been paid. And so where does that fit with, you know what I mean? And that’s not a person I know or trust, but it’s a person who I know could benefit for them from the information. Right? Whereas if I walk up to a stranger on the street or in a vestibule or what have you, you know, maybe I won’t be that comfortable not to say that I’m doing it the right or the wrong way. That’s just my own personal. You know what I.
[00:29:42] Keina Newell Think what you’re saying is like, find the people that can be invested in you. And I think it’s important to to recognize when people that are pouring into you, for lack of a better word, in a way that’s kind of in alignment with where you want to go. I have a client that I’m thinking about and we’ve kind of talked about where she get some of her advice from when it comes to like salary negotiations, because we were recently talking about how much money she wanted to make and she’s like, I think that the person that I talked to might have their own money objections and money mindset issues. So that might not be the person that I need to be talking to right now. So just I think, like, as I say this out loud, I’m just thinking about people who may be forming these connections and relationships are thinking about it. But just think about the people in your life that appropriately challenge you to like do better, if you will. Right. And in which way do they encourage you? Because like some people are properly positioned to help you with this and other people, you’re like, you don’t need to be on the roster. Maybe for my money conversation. Right. I know that we might have similar like some think in similar ways. And so you may not actually benefit me in the way in which I desire not to say anything bad about them. But I think about a mentor that I had at the time who challenged me about how much money I was making. And she was like, Well, what would happen if you made more money? And I was like, Oh, I can make more money. So like, you know, like that question was all I needed to kind of think about like, well, what would happen if I made more money where I could think about other people in my life? I would been like, Oh wow, you should be like, so excited for how much money you’re making. So just knowing that like two sides to that.
[00:31:29] Eniola Akinrinade Well, it’s just really interesting because money and knowing your financial worth, like what you can charge people for like your time or, you know, for your employees, what your employer should pay you for your time is a really interesting concept. And it’s funny because I have this friend. Her name is Keina and I see you, girl, you know, as you know, like I’m trying to start like my consulting business where I talk to people and give them a little bit of advice. And like, you know, I was I’ve been charging a certain amount and yesterday I may or may not have spoken to you or you were like, you need to charge more. And and I took that home with me and I prayed on it and I have increased my rate. And so someone today was like, Hey, I need to like just talk about some ideas off of you. And I’m like, okay, this is my rate. And they said to me, they’re like, okay, sounds good. And when I told them, This is my new rate or this like new rate, I said, This is my rate. I clenched my butt cheeks. I was so uncomfortable, you know, to ask for this, even though it’s like, yeah, I mean, it’s a discount for them. It’s well, you know, I should know my own worth, but even asking for it was so uncomfortable. But I was, like Keina said, that I should increase my rates and I’m really, really scared of her. Like I have to do her podcast. Yeah, well, let me just do this so I don’t get beaten tomorrow. And so I did it. And the person didn’t like that.
[00:32:47] Keina Newell No, it’s asking like, right. Like, what’s the worst that can happen for me? I always think about the fact I’m like, you already have the No, because you haven’t asked.
[00:32:56] Eniola Akinrinade Right?
[00:32:57] Keina Newell Or you already have the No because you haven’t put your number. If you’re thinking about like business stuff, you have an increased your rates, right? And so it’s it’s really it’s more mindset than anything when it comes to negotiating or setting rates in your business. And like that’s when I’m working with clients. Like those are the things that I love to pull out because I’m like, So tell me more about that. I heard you say that because the number actually has nothing to do with it. It’s like, what’s the belief that you have about yourself and what you bring and what you offer? And it’s helping people really identify their value and not like your value as a person, but thinking about your value with whatever. Where you’re delivering your value at a company. The reason that you can go to a company and they can pay you $300,000 is because in some way you are making that company $300,000 or more or more because. Or more. Yeah, you are, you are paying your salaries. So like when you think about it in that way and also thinking about like what would it cost to replace you if 300,000 does it resonate with you? When I say that and it and you just wanted to lose all of your insides, like whatever your salary is in number and just really think about what are the ways in which I add $100,000 worth of value to this company or if you’re charging somebody $500 a month for your services? What are the ways in which, you know, the results that I provide are worth $500 just in one call or just in one meeting with that person?
[00:34:34] Eniola Akinrinade You know, another thing on that same note, the last note about, you know, not knowing what you don’t know or what have you, you know, you told me to raise my rates. And I think that, you know, a thing or two about that or even in yeah, just a thing or two. But you know, at the same time, even when I first started this and I was talking to you about it and I was like, is it okay to charge like this much money? Like, it’s not that much right. You know, and you were like, No, that’s fine. I also went and asked some other people. I was like, Hey, have you ever done a consultation with somebody? Like, how much did they charge you? How long did you talk to them? So like figure out what this looks like for regular people, right? For because. Because I don’t know what I don’t know. So I think another question that people can ask when they’re trying to fact find is a broad open ended question. Like, tell me what it is. I don’t know. It’s just that people love to speak and people love to share knowledge. So, you know, just tell me what it is. I don’t know, because I also asked that question when I was to one of my best friends when I was coming to this current job, because she had just what’s a different company and, you know, similar situation but different company. And I asked her, What don’t I know? And she’s like, You know, what I learned is that if you ask them what your title is going to be when you’re going to this new job and you’re, you know, doing a whole onboarding thing or whatever interview process, ask them what would be the next title that makes sense, and then find out if there’s a difference in those jobs. Because she said that she came in at a counsel level, whatever it was, just let’s just say, well, the next level would have been director. The work was exactly the same. I mean, there might have been one or two little differences, but for her purposes, the work would have been the same. The difference would have been she would have gotten more money like several thousand dollars, and she would have gotten equity. And so she missed out on both of those things. And when she found out about this and later talked to, you know, her boss or whoever, they were like, oh, yeah, like, why? Why didn’t she do that? She’s like, kidding me. And then now to get promoted to that would take a whole other year. Yeah. So when I was like interviewing, I’m like, Tell me what? I don’t know. Then she told me that lesson. And so sure enough, when I was interviewing, I’m like, What’s the next level? And they said, you know, director said, I want that. They were like, No. And I was like, okay, well, you know.
[00:36:47] Keina Newell But you could start to have that conversation in the beginning, right? Like right now what they remember is like, yes, we hired her. She already came in talking about this is a position she wants next. And once again, I think it just goes back to kind of informing and building that relationship with whoever it is that you’re going to work with. And like, you know, that’s just kind of how I roll even within education. So those of you who are listening that are like you all just said, council work, you know, as a teacher and a vice principal. And this was how I rolled like I remember at one point in time. I can’t remember if I said this on the podcast, but I was a teacher and I worked at a charter school, but in the district. So there was charter school in the regular public school district in the public schools. They made more money than we did, but we have longer school days, so some kind of way I calculated the hourl y rate.
[00:37:44] Eniola Akinrinade Of course. Of course you did? Yes.
[00:37:47] Keina Newell And I put an email to h.R. I got back around to my boss.
[00:37:56] Eniola Akinrinade Of course
[00:37:57] Keina Newell But like, I’ve always been very curious. Once again, if you don’t ask, nobody’s going to pay attention to you. But I wanted to let them know, hey, i’m on to you guys are paying me less than I deserve to be paid and I’m doing a lot of work. But that that opened the door for a conversation that allowed me to, I think like shape how much I was paid in years after that. What they ended up doing was being like, Do you want to teach Saturday school? I’m like, I want more work to make more money. That was not what I was going to have more.
[00:38:29] Eniola Akinrinade You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the email I just sent
[00:38:32] Keina Newell It allowed. I mean, I saw that as a door of opportunity that set a precedent because then what happened was. When I transition from a teacher to a vice principal, and they gave me the contract and I was like, this is how much money I’m making now. Why would I really want it was a couple thousand dollars difference. I was like, Why would I want to make this move to manage people? But y’all are not trying to pay me more. And what ended up happening is that they they actually at that time didn’t really have a pay scale or any type of structure. So they he didn’t know how much money I made. And so they just kind of sent me a standard offer. And so had I not said anything, I would have made like an extra two or $3,000 to now do more work, manage people. Rick So just a word of encouragement for anyone who, wherever they are, be willing to be to be curious. And what happens when you have those conversations and maybe you don’t even get it right? I don’t know that it was right that I was sending emails to H.R..
[00:39:34] Eniola Akinrinade I mean, at my job we talk about people like you, but that doesn’t mean don’t do it. But I did.
[00:39:38] Keina Newell And look curious like, can you explain how they made $28 an hour and I’m at 17 or whatever, but.
[00:39:49] Eniola Akinrinade I mean, you don’t know what you don’t know.
[00:39:51] Keina Newell Yeah, no. So it’s not even just in money like that in terms of like how much you’re being paid. But I when I went to interview for jobs, like were they accommodating me by paying for my flight where they pay for travel, like little things that depending on what type of industries you’ve come from, you don’t even know that people get a per diem or you don’t know that like that is an expense that can be reimbursed. So back to this whole like money experience or, you know, job search experience, whatever makes you feel good, just love your question of like asking this open ended question, statement of like, you know, tell me what I don’t know, what have you learned? And just find your doorway into what you need to make your next decision.
[00:40:39] Eniola Akinrinade And also just like take chances. Because I like what you just said now about, you know, people don’t know they get a per diem and ABC and like did you know like under U.S. law if you if your employer asks you this is not legal advice. Okay, I have heard that there’s a law out there that exists. No, but like with your employer in certain situations asks you to commute for work, they have to reimburse you a certain amount, a few cents. I think it might be like 14 or $0.40. I don’t remember per mile. Right. And so if you’re just, you know, driving, you know, two miles away, whatever, who cares? But if you’re driving from Dallas to Austin because they told they told you that, you know, you can’t take a flight because it’s within the same state, you have to drive. Like that’s going to be a lot of money at the end of the day when you make that roundtrip trip. And if you don’t if you don’t request the expense, they don’t know to fulfill it. So it’s like, you know, if you don’t know any better, you might be sitting there thinking, okay, well, I guess I have to just drive to Austin, Mexico, drive to this place, and not realizing that you can be reimbursed for some of that. Like ask the questions, ask the questions. Now, if you say, I have to drive my boss, ask me to go next door to get something you can ask for mileage then to you will get denied. But at least now you know, right, that like I should be paid for my time. Like, this is something that I’ve been asked to do. So you don’t know what you don’t know? Ask questions, you know, within reason. Shoot your shot, ask like, can I be reimbursed for ABC and or.
[00:42:02] Keina Newell And sometimes your boss might not know that’s the other two is like if they never ask the types of questions because they just don’t orient in this way. You can ask. You can also say like, can you check what if they say they don’t know? You can ask, can you check with H.R. or whatever the department is financing, whatever that may look like, but just like make some forward progress in advocating for yourself, whatever you’re tackling financially. I think that’s kind of how we could wrap up this conversation, right? Like, yeah, you’re out with things you don’t know by intentionally engaging in conversations to create a life that you actually desire.
[00:42:41] Eniola Akinrinade All right, great.
[00:42:44] Keina Newell All right. Well, I have like eight other other thousand questions for you, but I think we did a great job.
[00:42:49] Eniola Akinrinade I think so.
[00:42:53] Keina Newell Thank you for listening to an episode or this episode of Money Files. And I would invite you maybe you’re like, I don’t have a space where I can talk about money. Then you can come to Mimosas and Money Matters, which is my live group coaching call. It’s free. So that’s a place where you can get coaching. Around money. You can also listen to other people be a coach, but that could help build your confidence and you will also hear about different experiences. So thank you Eniola, I appreciate it.
[00:43:22] Eniola Akinrinade Thank you.
[00:43:22] Keina Newell Too. Oh, and also, I should say the link for Mimosas and Money Matters. You go to the show notes on Apple or Spotify or wherever you love with Apple Podcasts, you can grab the link there. Thank you so much for listening to Money Files. If you’re ready to take the next step to reach your financial goals, head to www.wealthovernow.com/appointment and let’s get started.