Ripple Effects of Coaching: Two Years Later with Muhawu

Today, I’m joined by a former client, Muhawu Lumeya, whom I had the pleasure of working with about two and a half years ago.

We discuss the concept of wealth beyond just monetary figures, exploring how intentional time with family and strategic financial decisions contribute to a fulfilling life. Muhawu reflects on her shift from financial anxiety to a mindset of abundance, sharing the profound impact of our coaching partnership. 

Join us as we uncover the layers of wealth, from health and generosity to the unexpected surprises that arise when taking control of the financial narrative. 

Hot topics discussed in this episode include:

[03:13] The concept of wealth beyond monetary value

[05:19] How health, rest, and generosity contribute to wealth

[19:07] The impact of financial coaching on mindset and financial decisions.

[25:49] The interconnectedness of personal and financial growth

[34:14] The ongoing impact of the coaching partnership even after two and a half years.

[37:15] Navigating the complexities of shame associated with money.

If you’ve ever felt stuck or overwhelmed by money matters, this episode is a testament to the power of shifting your mindset and embracing the journey toward true wealth.

If you’re ready to improve your relationship with money and start making moves towards your financial goals, apply to work with me so we can create a plan to get you there.

IF YOU LOVED THIS CONVERSATION ON RIPPLE EFFECTS OF COACHING: TWO YEARS LATER WITH MUHAWU, CHECK OUT MY EPISODE ON HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT MONEY!

Transcript for “Ripple Effects of Coaching: Two Years Later with Muhawu”

Intro: Hi, and welcome to Money Files. I’m Keina Newell from Wealth Over Now. I work every day with professional women and solopreneurs to help them get out of financial overwhelm and shame so they can experience more flexibility and ease with their finances. Are you ready to gain confidence and learn to manage your finances intentionally? Tune in and grab financial tips that will help you master the way you think about and manage your finances. 

Keina: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Money Files. So today I’m with a former client who found me via the wonderful internet with a nice Google search. And at the time she lived in DC and I just found out that she has recently went to the other coast, the west coast but I will go ahead and let you introduce yourself.

Muhawu: Yeah, well thank you so much for having me, Keina. My name is Muhawu Lumeya and I worked with Keina about two years ago. 

Keina: About two and a half. 

Muhawu: Two and a half at this point because we started in May of 2021. And it’s a pleasure to finally be on the podcast, after running away.

Keina: I’ve been tracking you down for a very long time, but it’s okay because I think you’re here at the most perfect moment. And I was telling you that one of the things that I wanted to do with, years ago I had a where are they now series. I really want to do a series like focused on wealth building and just this idea of wealth budgeting. Some of you are probably like, what are you talking about Keina? But the concept being, just really being able to lean into this process of using a budget as a tool to build wealth. And even for myself, I’ve had to disrupt what it means to build wealth. I think that many of us think about wealth as a certain dollar amount in our bank accounts and not really thinking about what are all of the ways in which I have wealth right now.

I actually did this exercise with my business coach and I was thinking about even my business name, like Wealth Over Now. I was like, okay Keina like, what does wealth mean to you? And for me, one of the things that I can say is, wealth is like being able to lean into how I spend my time. One of the things that I really enjoyed about working for myself is being able to spend more intentional time with my family and that costs money to spend time with your family. But being able to be strategic in a way where my finances do allow both for the fact that my business can take care of itself, I can take care of myself and it’s allowing me to lean in and create these intentional moments with family and friends. For me it’s like I’m not going to get that time back.

So that’s just one layer I think that I think about for myself having wealth. And of course there’s like the technical pieces where you want to contribute to your retirement and do all of the things that responsible adults do. My hope is that by talking to clients like yourself and I’m going to feature a couple other clients as well, is that we can really think about, what’s the impact of investing and working with a financial coach, not just in the five months that we’ve worked together, but then being able, I mean, I love the fact that you told me no many, many times because now that puts us at like two and a half years, almost three years out and to be able to see your own shifts. So I’m just going to start by asking you, how are you wealthy right now? That’s the question I’m going to go with.

Muhawu: I started off actually this year trying to define that for myself, wealth. For me, wealth and health are very tied together because I think we were talking about this offline Keina. I came to you at a time where health-wise, my health was declining and I knew that I needed to pivot. I couldn’t figure out, I was stressed out about money. So for me, health is wealth, being able to be healthy. That time factor too but I’ve defined wealth this year as health and being well-rested, health, being well rested and being generous and so before generosity for me had a lot to do with the financial aspect. Being able to give to charity, being able to give to friends, to family financially and while we actually worked together during our partnership Keina, we talked a lot about other aspects, like your time. 

I remember talking through family event and I was stressed out about it because I knew I didn’t have the money. There were all these cultural expectations and you really pushing me to think through, well, what are the other elements that you bring to the table? Talking to the people, spending time and I thought, okay, yeah, time, that is also part of wealth. So that was something that really was honed in during our partnership. So I would actually categorize wealth as healthy, well-rested and generous with time and that also may mean sometimes saying no to your favorite and only coach, financial coach that you’ve ever had until the time is right.

Keina: Well, you definitely practice that. You’re like, no, right now is not a season. I was like, okay, I’m just going to leave you alone. And then you emailed me to tell me how you were doing. So just slide the question in again.

Muhawu: I was ready. I was like, yeah, we can do it. I have space.

Keina: Yeah. She said we can do it. And then she was like, I’ll book in December. That works too. I’m curious, we can talk a little bit about where you started, but thinking about the 2021 version of yourself, how would they say you’re wealthy right now?

Muhawu: The 2021 version of myself, I am wealthy. I don’t actually wake up or go to bed thinking about money. I do think that anxiety in general was very much a part of my 2021 self and financial anxiety was huge. And so looking at 2023, Muha, you said this a lot Keina, money is a tool, it’s a tool. There are a lot of emotions attached to money, but it’s a tool. So my 2023 self, it’s like, okay, yeah. Do I have it? Do I not have it? I’m not thinking through at every moment, okay, maybe I need to go look at my tracker because I didn’t have a budget according to Keina, which she was. I had a tracker and I looked at that tracker religiously in 2021.

My budget, I look at twice a week. And that’s thanks to actually the coaching partnership. So yeah, I think 2021 version would say I’m wealthy because I’m not anxious about my finances. I also have space. I’ve created space for myself. And it was the flip before, it was how is everybody else doing? What does everybody else need? And I used to be so tired, I’m not tired, I’m content and that’s another part of wealth. I think being content with where I am in 2023, because there’s space to make decisions. I’m not reacting. The 2021 version of me would look at my 2023 self and say, you made it because in 2021, I didn’t know how I was going to get here. I didn’t know at all. I didn’t even know it was possible, to be honest. I just knew I had to try something different because what I was doing before was not getting me to where I thought I needed to go.

Keina: Take us back to like 2021 and what made you reach out for coaching?

Muhawu: 2021. So in 2020, I slowed down long enough to realize that I was exhausted. I used to work in international development and my job had me not just traveling. The travel wasn’t that hectic, definitely by 2020, but by 2019 I wasn’t traveling as much, but there was just a lot of responsibility, a lot of stress. And so that was the work aspect. But also the family, I come from Congolese background, democratic Republic of Congo, that’s my cultural heritage. And there’s a lot of responsibility on being part of a really communitarian way of looking at life and being a firstborn. So there was just a lot of that. And so coming into, so 2020, I slowed down long enough to realize, okay, there’s a lot. It actually is quite a bit. And in 2021, I started to feel my body just was off.

It was off, but nothing was really showing initially. So I just kept pushing until I couldn’t push anymore and my doctors were starting to sound the alarm. So that was kind of the background. And I’d been at my job for a decade at that point or coming on close to a decade and realizing my dream job was no longer my dream job, did I really outgrow my dream job? How is that? And if I’ve outgrown my dream job, I don’t have another dream and I don’t have space to dream. How do I create? So there’s just a lot of questions, no answers. And people kept telling me, my friends had been telling me for years, you need to pivot. You need to pivot. Friends and family, you need to pivot. I’m like, I understand that I need to pivot, but what do I pivot to because I don’t have the space to figure out what I want to do next? 

So that’s how I came into 2021. And by April, it’s my birthday, I take time to just kind of assess what the last year and where do I want to go. And I could not figure out where I wanted to go. I just knew I was exhausted and I needed time and space to think. I was like, how do I do that? Because financially I’m not stable enough to just take off work. I was like, if I could, I would’ve resigned that same month and just sat somewhere but I couldn’t do that. So I was like, okay, if I can’t do that and I don’t know how to do that, I’ve got to find a coach. I have to find a financial coach. And I’m sure someone in my circle had talked about financial coaching. We talked about a whole bunch of coaching. We used coaches at my job too. 

Keina: [09:18 inaudible] a coach.

Muhawu: Yeah. So I was like, well what does that look like? I was like, let me just type in financial coach, DMV area, and I just went down this pike. I’d been listening to a couple of well renowned national financial coaches. But I was like, I don’t have that kind of money. But how do I get somebody who can walk me, who understands my reality? Because I think being in the DC “bubble.” I couldn’t have somebody from Fresno, California, a coach from Fresno, California, walk me through what to think about. I think DC is very specific in a very particular place. And so I wanted somebody who could understand that. So I just went down the hall and nobody around me though had somebody that they could suggest to me.

So I just used Google until I found a few names. And then I did some more digging and I listened to podcasts and I was like, yeah, I’m going to try this person. And if this person says no, I’ll just go on to the next person. And you just happened to be the first person. And I just thought, she’s in DC. It was extremely important to me to have somebody who understood what being a black woman in professional America looked like. And so I was like, she’s a black woman. She has worked with all types of professionals, singles, and so I thought, she might be a good fit because I know where I’m stuck here. And so to have somebody who has a well-rounded view of the world and who can speak to different types of people is important for where I need to go. So that’s how I got to where I got.

Keina: I love it. And like what you’re talking about in the job situation, it resonates with me because my business is born out of a career pivot. And just being in that space where you’re like, okay, this dream that I had, you are like, we’ve gotten to the end of the road. It’s like literally one of those cartoon sketches, and you are like okay but what happens next? And like, there’s no guidebook. And to think about how finances can play a role in that, especially like you’re mentioning being first and then there’s this cultural component. For me, my mom and dad can help me, but when I say help, like, hey, we can pay a utility bill, like they’re not like, Keina, we can pay your DC mortgage of $2,000 a month. And that’s always been like the place that when I’m thinking about like building wealth, it’s like I want to be able to give myself opportunities and be able to be in a position that if I need to support someone else, I can. So your friends are smart to tell you to go to a coach, financial coach in fact.

Muhawu: Thank you friends.

Keina: But yeah. So if you can remember back, and I remember some things as well, but what happened for you within that first five months of us working together?

Muhawu: Well, I was challenged in so many different ways. I was trying to be polite about it at certain points when I was like, I don’t see how this is going to work Keina but, okay. But I think trying to sum it up, the five months, first of all, I actually got a budget. A budget was created. I learned that retirement was a form of investment because I came in, I think one of the things I said was like, I need to learn how to invest. Somebody needs to help me to invest. And I kept asking you about it, and you’re like, you do realize that you’re already investing. So things like that were helpful. I think the other bit, so for the first two weeks, you had me everyday write down how I spent my money, but not just the tracker that I used to have.

Because I was like, oh, I’ve done this. I can do date and amount, but it was also attaching feelings. And so this concept of money being attached to feelings and that bit, I can tap into my feelings when I’m talking to people, my nieces, my nephews, family members, friends. But having to think about money, feelings and money was something that I knew about it intellectually, but having to go through that exercise was much harder for me but it was revealing because I’m like, ah, this is why I feel this way. So you had me throughout our coaching talk through. Why do you think this way? It’s like, do I really have to talk about it? It’s just, I feel it, so let’s move through.

But that’s what got me to the point where I was crashing and burning. It’s like, okay, let’s not push through. Let’s try to figure out why so that we can be intentional about how we pivot. And so that was hard, but extremely valuable, extremely important. As I was sharing with you, I ended up sharing with a cousin of mine just recently about that whole experience. And she’s in the process, she’s starting her second week of just that tracking. And she was saying halfway through her first week, she just wanted to throw her laptop away because She was like, this is too much. It’s showing too much. But it’s also like, part of it is ick, I think, there might be some shame attached. It’s like we were taking the simple idea of like, how much money do you actually spend in a week on groceries, like in low balling it? 

And then when you finally write out how much you actually spend, it’s like, well, I can spend less. It’s like, no, no, no, let’s just sit in it. That’s how much you spend. And eventually we’ll get to a point where we have to see, with what you’re bringing in, can you actually spend that amount? Yes or no? What other line item needs to change? So going through that process, but taking it slow was extremely helpful because as a person who always wants to find solutions to things, you give me your problem, I’ll find a solution. And I know that when I have to do that, I take my time before I come to a solution. But when it came to my own saying, it was just like, I can’t do it. It’s hard. I don’t even know if I answered your question.

Keina: You answered my question. I asked what happened during our five months. What would you say were some of your most memorable results or shifts that you had while we were working together?

Muhawu: Well results. I remember coming to you and thinking, well, one of the questions I was asked, I think in the intake is, what would you do if I had to tell you, you need to get another job? I thought I could barely do the one I have. I think I wrote something like, I would die or I’d be so disappointed or something like that. But this whole thing of like, at the time with the salary that I make, I didn’t believe that I could actually save. And I think I only had like a thousand dollars in my account. And by the end, I don’t remember, I did not pull up the number, but I had more than a thousand dollars in my account by the end of our partnership.

And that to me was like mind blowing. And it also was like, wow, okay, I didn’t see these dollar amounts, but it’s the same amount. The check didn’t change. I still brought in the same amount of money, but I was able to save much more. And that I have continued, I mean, as I told you, I was on a career break for nine months, and then at the end of my nine months, I was still, health-wise not where I need to be. And so I decided, you know what? I’m still going to kind of sit out from the professional world in some way and decided to start tutoring. So I make a stipend at the moment, and I’m still able to save. But if it wasn’t for the results that we were getting during our coaching, I don’t think that I could even have thought that on a stipend. I can still save. 

I can save, I pay my bills. There are other things I’ve shifted in my life since leaving DC talking about leaning on parents. I couldn’t lean on my parents to pay my bills in DC but I’m squatting at their home right now, which pays for the rent for free and though that was another shift. Being able to sit back and say, okay, in order for me to get to this goal, whatever the goal was in the medium term, what needs to shift now? So kind of going, play on your name, wealth over now. What are the things in my wealth toolkit at the moment that I can actually build off of? And part of the decision to leave DC was and I wasn’t actually going to come back to California.

I was on my way to Nairobi, Kenya but the idea was the same. I have people in my life who basically said, when you need a break, our place is available. And the process, what we started, you and me, what we started was I started to put money aside. And the intent, the idea behind it was, I’m not just going to change jobs, I am going to pause. And so in order for me to pause, I need to put money aside so that I can pause. Initially, the month, the total month was six. I ended up doing nine. And a big part of that was because I put money aside, that also just meant that I wasn’t eating out as much ish. I still ate out though. I had to say, okay, instead of spending dollar amount here, we’re going to reduce it a bit.

I didn’t starve myself to do it, but things shifted for me. And so when I got to California and I couldn’t get on another plane because my body just refused. It was like, okay, Kenya is out. California is in, and it’s fine because these folks said, when you need, there’s a place for you and that’s fine. So just identifying who are those people? What are the things that can allow for me to, in this case, get healthy in order for me to continue on this road? That was also another thing. You created a space for me to actually take in the idea and start to put it into practice. And after our partnership, it has continued, so when I think of, last year I ended up going to visit, I have a sibling who lives in Germany.

So I thought, okay, I’m still putting a lot of money aside because I need to take this nine month career break, but I still want to see my sibling because I know that in 2023, I won’t be able to do that. How do I do both things? I was able to, part of it was also I was like, well, I have a work trip, so why not tack on part of my personal trip and do it all obviously in a legal way. But I would never have thought of it before. I would’ve thought before, let me do my work trip, then come back to DC, get on another plane to Berlin, very small things like that. Now we could look back and laugh at it, but at the time it would never have crossed my mind.

Keina: I think we did financial career, life coaching. 

Muhawu: We sure did. I certainly felt at some points I was like, she’s not my financial coach. She’s my psychologist right now.

Keina: I remember and I think, it’s so easy to see what’s happening when it’s not happening to you. You had what I call an impoverished mindset when it comes to money, because there are so many people, and because I came out of education, and when I work with people in the nonprofit space, there are these thoughts that like, money is like so finite and there’s no more of it. And I remember challenging you on those things, especially like the work in which you do, I’m like, you know you can make more money, right?

Muhawu: And you weren’t the first person to tell me that either, but I was like, I respect it because I came to her and she’s a financial coach, but how?

Keina: We talked a little bit about this before we hopped on, but I just love hearing now you talk about this idea of leaning in and thinking about your resources, because I know at the time it was like, okay, if this isn’t your dream job, what does it look like to explore? Who can look at your resume? Okay, before the next time we have a call, like how many people are you going to have shared your resume with or like LinkedIn but really leveraging your network. If you’re listening right now, you’re like, how is any of this related to budgeting? I mean, I think one of the things that I enjoy most in my coaching is being able to allow clients to bring their whole selves because whatever’s in your bank account is a reflection of something bigger, deeper, and greater.

The only reason you reach out to me is because at some point you’re kind of in a corner and you’re like, I need to get out but like you said, I don’t have the money to be able to take care of myself right now so money might be the thing. Your bank account is like, well, you better go talk to somebody. But we get to talk about the other things and for you, it was also just, I mean, you’re such a giver. I think that was one of the things that I remember and you’re so generous. But it was like how do you also extend that generosity to yourself?

Muhawu: Yep. And the last year has definitely been that. I would say 2022 was like internal pivot to allow myself to recognize that I’m going to feel bad saying no to people. The first half of this year was very much like I’m saying no, but it feels terrible inside. But I know that it’s because I’m putting myself first. By the end of the year though, I’m just kind of like, yeah, no, it’s no. But it really has been a two and a half year process, to get here. It didn’t just start this year. It really did start with the partnership. And I think it keeps giving, even though you and I have not spoken to each other, we sent messages back and forth, but haven’t spoken to each other in a substantive way for two and a half years. 

Keina: What results are you like, I don’t know, that just kind of make you drop your jaw when you look in the rear view mirror at what you’ve accomplished?

Muhawu: So this is going to be more financial because I’d say they’re in two categories. The mindset aspect. You were talking earlier about having an impoverished mindset. And I think for me at least, these like coming from a “mission driven,” we’re mission driven, you’re not coming here. They used to say this to us actually. We know you’re not coming here to make money, it’s not about the money, it’s about the mission. It’s like, yeah, but you’re taking advantage of people. So I used to tell colleagues who worked with me and I would tell them this, but I would not put this into practice myself. I’d say when you come in, think about what you bring to the organization and what you can get from the organization.

And when things don’t align anymore, get out, get out before you’re angry and you’re tired and your body is running down because you can be mission-driven and people can mistreat you and you allow them mistreatment too. So in any case, for me that mindset shift and recognizing I can still do very good work and it doesn’t have to be here. That was huge. That was huge for me. And then also to realize I can completely unplug from the Matrix, and that will also be okay. That does not mean that I’m throwing away my talents. I’m just putting pause on the professional world right now and that’s fine too. Mindset shift. I think on the financial side, so one of the things, going back to budgeting when we put together the budget and there’s a tab, I forgot what it’s called, financial plan or whatever but it’s broken up into categories of asset liabilities and net worth. 

Before starting the partnership with Wealth Over Now, if you asked me what your networth was. I would’ve told you zero. I was like, I pay my student loans, I pay other loans, there’s no money. And so that wasn’t quite true even back then. But having a net worth that was lower than 20,000 in 2021 and now I actually haven’t looked at it now, but like in June, I think I wrote to you. In June, it was close to 90,000. Mind-boggling to me. That’s just a shift within two and a half years and granted, there are all these things that ended up happening, debt that was dropped, student loan debt and even the process of being able to file PSLF. Again, going back to mindset, those are things that we talked about when you and I worked together.

But I filed for PSLF a year and a half ago after we had stopped working together. But there were a lot of things going back to my improv mindset at the time, that stopped me from even considering, that I could, I qualified, well, at the time, before we started working together, I didn’t qualify, but with the temporary reopening I did. But before I would’ve been like, ah, I tried it once, it didn’t work out, that’s fine. That’s for other people. I need to, self-flagellate and somehow it’s going to work itself out. And it’s like, no, you have to take your life into your own hands. And just because it was no the first time doesn’t mean that it’s going to be no again. And so I’ve been learning because of that. I’ve been also a little bit more direct, I think in things. And in speaking out for myself, I used to speak out really well for others and did a crappy job of doing it for myself. But we started already during our partnership because you had to talk about, what did you do this since the last time? And being able to say, I actually said this and it was fine.

Keina: I think I made you have a conversation with somebody you worked with. 

Muhawu: You did.

Keina: And I was like, okay. So what do you want to say? Where’s this conversation on your calendar? I can’t remember who it was, but I do. 

Muhawu: But there were many moments.

Keina: Yes. I was like, no. You have to do the things you’re asking others and do them for yourself. 

Muhawu: Yeah. And I think part of me, I didn’t actually realize how small I had made myself in my own mind until the partnership.

Keina: I don’t even think it’s like making yourself small. I think I at least can identify, especially career-wise, where you put blinders on and because you haven’t had any other oxygen or you haven’t seen any other landscape, you don’t know that you’re sitting over there in dry grass because you didn’t know that there was green grass. And it’s like, not that you wouldn’t have wanted the green grass, it’s just like you are unaware because you’ve had your head down. And so I think that’s one of my points that I always think about, even for myself and why I think I also love coaching and being able to expose myself to someone else being able to point out my blind spots because you don’t see what you don’t see. And it’s not because you’re not capable or you think less of yourself. But like, you are just in your own groove, your own little fishbowl, and you don’t even know there are different waters, different pastures. And so, yes. I just remember being like, oh no, we’re going to get her all the way because she over here. And you’re black, oh no, we ain’t doing this. Not today and not on my watch.

Muhawu: No. And I’m thankful for that. But another thing I wanted to make sure I said here Keina was and I think it still also falls under the budgeting rubric is on top of using the spreadsheet, the budget to this day. I still use, I have a financial notebook. I didn’t have a financial notebook before. I used to write things down and within the month I’d shred it and just keep going. I have money dates and as I said before, it’s down to twice a week. And another thing that I learned while we partnered together was it wasn’t just about the money. It wasn’t income and expense. It was, okay, so if you’re going to go grocery shopping and you want to buy X, Y, and Z, why don’t you check in your cabinets to make sure that’s exactly what you need?

I was just like, of course, yeah, that makes sense. But at the time, it was just kind of like, we just add more. And then later on you’re like, well, why did I have 10 of these? But to use the money date for something more expansive than just looking at your savings account and your other accounts and updating the spreadsheet, that for me was extremely helpful. And I still do. It’s like, do I need more shampoo? I know I’m on track for it, but do I actually really need it? Let me go and look inside my closet. So budget, the notebook, the money date, those are things learned during our partnership that I still do today, that I still use today. 

Keina: And I feel like I wanted to come back to this a long time ago, probably like 10 minutes ago now, because we kind of like glossed over it but you have been intentionally stepping back from, what did you call it? You are sitting out of, did you say sitting out of professionalism? Something, you said.

Muhawu: Something yeah, I don’t know what I said. But yeah, I took a step, people will call it a sabbatical. I was like, nobody’s paying me for this time. 

Keina: You are you paying yourself.

Muhawu: I knew you were going to say that. I was like, it’s a career break from the professional world, the way that I see it. Now granted, as I said, I started to tutor. So I am going into some building and collecting some form of money. So I did nine months of absolutely nothing. I woke up, decided to be “lazy” and when people would say, oh, you’re being lazy. I was like, yeah, I love it. There’s not a problem with being lazy but just like being selfish. I think you and I had long conversations about that during partnership, redefining some of these things. And again, what’s the intent? What’s the intentionality? It has been the best gift to myself? I didn’t even believe. So here’s the thing, I planned for it, but I didn’t believe that I could actually, that it could happen and because even a year ago, because I started a year ago ago, taht a year later I would be able to feel well.

I’d be able to feel well, I’d be able to feel content, I’d be able to actually start dreaming again and recognizing, okay, yeah, we’re doing all of those things. The next step professionally isn’t, I don’t have that. I was hoping that that would happen within the year. It hasn’t and to be okay with that has been another thing. Another unintentional gift, something I hoped for and now that we’re here, it’s like, oh yeah, that feels good not to have everything so planned out. There are certain things that are planned out, but we can actually just kind of be and that’s going to be okay. 

Keina: I wanted to come back to this career break because it’s like being able to have the thought that I would be able to not work for seven months, nine months, whatever, in your head. But maybe the 2021 version of you couldn’t have forecasted, I know you wanted to take a break, but like being able to know that by means of investing in yourself, that you are also going to be able to invest in yourself in a different way, like two years from now, three years from now. And like the thing that I love about budgeting and why I want to really nail these different pictures of wealth, is that you don’t know what circumstances are going to come up for you. But like, as I’m listening to you talk, you’ve been able to take the tools that I taught you and use them in areas of your life and in whatever way you needed in order to benefit you in that season. Kudos to you because you found me on the internet, you said, yes.

Muhawu: I did.

Keina: You gave me some money and just being able to just have an entirely new version of you. And I know that whenever you do decide to press play again on your career because of this entire process, you’re going to be able to say yes in ways that feel really healthy to you both emotionally, mentally, financially. I’m not worried about that, which I like, I love.

Muhawu: 2023 version of me can say, I agree. 2021 version I just kind of looked at you and said, alright, Keina.

Keina: There she goes again talking that stuff.

Muhawu: I agree wholeheartedly.

Keina: I have two more questions. One, because I was just speaking of investment, I think you put coaching, you did like PayPal?

Muhawu: I did a credit card.

Keina: Talk about that. Because I feel like, I mean, sometimes I talk about it with people just depending, how do you talk about, I have financial anxiety, but I’m going to go use my credit card to pay this woman.

Muhawu: And let me tell you, whew. When I decided, after that first call we had, I was like, yeah, I need it, what am I putting it on, the credit card that has zero balance on it right now. And I’m going to keep looking at it for the next foreseeable future. But my need to see another way outweighed my financial anxiety. And this belief, because besides financial coaching, the only other kind of coaching I’ve had a little bit of professional, but really it’s been with psychologists. And so I  knew that, you know what, I might not see the return now, but there’s a payoff. I have to believe that there’s a payoff. And so I will figure out a way if what she said and all the people who talked to her on her podcast said, the tools have helped them figure out a way. I may not be able to pay it down in a year, but it will get paid down. And it did. I paid it off. I did. But at the time I was desperate. I think that’s the term. I was so desperate to see another way, because everything else that I had been trying, I was hitting a wall. And so I was like, this is kind of my last option to see if this was the piece I was missing to figure out how do I make that pivot or pause that I’m willing to put it on a credit card.

Keina: Did you think about what happens if it doesn’t work.

Muhawu: A bit, but that voice was drowned out by the desperation. Because I think the other part of it was I had graduate student loans. They were there with me for a while so I figured, I got that. I’ll just add this. If I need to eat tuna fish sandwiches for a bit to pay down stuff, I’ve done it before. I could do it again. Yeah. No, I mean, the voice was there, but really I was just like, I’ve got to see if this works out and if it doesn’t work out.

Keina: What would you say to someone who their voices there, it’s like what if it doesn’t work for me?

Muhawu: I mean, it’s very personal, I would say, what are you hoping to get out of it because for me, I was looking for a way to step away from the job that was killing me. That was my goal at the time. And I knew that everything that I had done before wasn’t getting me there. So I was willing to take the risk. And that’s the other thing, I’m a pretty risk averse person, but this was something risky that I had to take a leap of faith. I mean, it’s very personal, Keina. I don’t really know if I could convince anybody to take it, to take the step. 

Keina: No, what just came up for me is like, and I think for some of my clients, and I’ll just say this transparently, for some of my clients, I know they’re deep rooted why and for some of them, I don’t, not initially, I think as we get to know each other. I don’t know if on our consult this was like and this is going to sound harsh, like life or death for you.

Muhawu: No. I do a very good job of like, you know.

Keina: I’m highlighting this because there’s this level of vulnerability that I know that it takes to be able to reach out and ask for help. And as a coach, I hold that space really sacred that someone invites me into their space. Because I know it’s like showing somebody your underwear drawer, you’re like excuse me, not over here. Nope. But even to hear now, like in 2021, this was basically life or death for you. And I know I’m being super dramatic, but it was health related, right? About your job and to be able to see, I think at the time I was charging $6,000, but for $6,000 you saved your life. And like, was it worth it?

Muhawu: Yeah, it was.

Keina: It’s like being, because yes, you had a budget versus your tracking tool. I don’t know what you were doing, but God bless you. 

Muhawu: This was really embarrassing because I manage budgets at work. And so when you’re like, that’s not a budget, I was like, man, my feelings are hurt. But she’s right. That’s not a budget. Why was I calling it a budget?

Keina: Somebody taught you that. I think that what’s the thing that would make it worth it for you? I know for anyone listening, it’s not an Excel sheet that’s going to make it worth it. Not a Google sheet, there’s something deeper. And so really to think about that and you’re going to be able to get to that result that you want quicker and easier because we had to work together for five months. I mean, we worked on a lot of stuff I think in five months and touching different aspects of your life. We talked about family because I feel like the family pool was very strong. And I think some family wanted money at some point. So we got to navigate that. Just being able to put all these things in your toolkit. I’m just excited. I mean that sound excited, but I’m also reflecting at the same time.

Muhawu: Way too many hats on this recording.

Keina: Alright. I have one last question for you, one of the things that you said, which I just want your take, so you talked about just the experience of shame when it comes to your finances. And I think shame is something that comes up a lot, especially when people are overspending or if they don’t know how they got back into debt. But what’s your experience with shame when it comes to your money? And has that shifted since you’ve worked with me?

Muhawu: Shame with money. So part of the shame is my religious background, is one is supposed to be content with what one has. And so even, I remember when we were talking during the partnership about, you can earn more Muha. It’s like, but, but, but. So earning more means that I’m not content with what I have right now. And then that means I’m, I’m ashamed of what God’s given me. So for me, everything was kind of wrapped up.

Keina: It’s like this yeah.

Muhawu: And I remember talking to my parents about it. And money is not a thing with my parents. They’re just like, if we’ve got it, we give it. There’s no shame attached for them. So it’s been very strange also to see the amount of shame that I had about money. It was not a generational passed down, so there’s that bit. And then I think there was this whole idea of I am at the time a professional woman who makes a certain amount of money. I’ve got a master’s degree. I am living in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And what do you mean I don’t have extra money to just throw around? 

Keina: That’s where the shame comes from.

Muhawu: Yeah. So there was a lot of that. So, do I have it now? No. Most of this year as I’ve been on my career break slash sabbatical, it was difficult for me in the beginning to just, because I left my job, I left my well-paying job and I had money obviously in the bank. But that also meant that I needed to be very choosy about what I did and what I didn’t do during this time. And so in the beginning, saying no was difficult, but I knew I was going to say no. And typically what would’ve happened in 2021 was I would say no. I’d be so ashamed for probably months. So if I had additional pots of money, I probably would’ve gone back to the person who asked for something in February. We are in November, and I would’ve given you whatever you asked for plus interest. 

Now it’s just kind of like, and I’ve had a couple of talks actually this year. People would ask, I’m like, as you know, I don’t work, so I can’t help. And folks will try again. And I’m just like, I said, no, that’s it. And I’d still feel bad. So we’d go through kind of the cycle, but the cycle, it would end, it was shorter. And so I can sit in December and not actually even remember who asked for what. What was the thing that needed contributions that I wasn’t able to contribute to? But in 2021, I could have told you, even in December, all of the things, the events, and many of them, some of those events, nobody actually asked but there’s an expectation, somebody, but who actually? And so recognizing, okay, there’s a lot of self-imposed I’m taking on this. So the shame didn’t really make sense and then digging deeper, realizing, no, I’m creating that. Because when I go back to the people, they’re like, no, we didn’t, if you didn’t have it, you didn’t have it. 

Keina: What do you think is going to happen when you go back to the professional world?

Muhawu: Well, I do think, so actually had we had this conversation December of last year, I’ve been like, I don’t know, but I have had opportunities this year again, to like try it out. And sometimes I was a little too, I think I’d border on mean and trying to like hold firm on my boundary. Sometimes I was a little too meek. It never came out though. So I feel like by December it’s fine. I feel like it’ll be fine when there’s more money coming in, but also recognizing if I don’t get things right the first time, the world doesn’t fall apart. That’s the perfectionist side of me too, that has definitely relaxed over the past year. So I’m hoping that we will stick to this new version.

I give myself a little space to make mistakes. But the shame aspect though, Keina, I don’t think. It’s not completely gone, but it doesn’t have the same hold. It’s like the anxiety. When I woke up the first time in March of this year and there was no anxiety, not just about financial anxiety. The other thing that led me to you was I was waking up with anxiety. I was going to bed with anxiety. So it had become my friend. So this year, by March when I woke up and there was no anxiety, I was like, wait, what’s going on? And I went for my walk and I was like things feel different. I’ve noted it in my journal and by April I was like, oh my goodness, I realize no anxiety. That feels great. That means I can actually do it. And part of it though was the saying no and pulling back from certain things where it’s like, yeah, no actually, no. So I don’t want to go back to that. And so I feel like because there’s a firm resolve about not going back to that and recognizing what I needed to put in place in order to not go back to that, it’ll be harder for me to fall back into some of these earlier former habits.

Keina: And just knowing your boundaries. You were just talking about like the shame. I don’t know, sometimes, especially my experience with emotions is that they don’t go away, which is fine. I don’t think the goal is for them to completely go away. But it’s to learn how to operate when they’re there or to know how to, like we were talking about earlier, like being able to recognize that the cycle has shortened and like you know how to take care of yourself while you’re experiencing that emotion. Because that’s the thing that allows you to actually be able to take care of yourself mentally.

Muhawu: And part of it actually too, is going back to those friends who were very instrumental. Part of it is, especially when I realized I’m not getting out of this, and if anything I’m like doing a little bit of spiral or I’m hyperfocused on this thing, it’s like, okay, let me pull out my phone, drop a quick voice note and have somebody else tell me, alright, no, you are tripping or maybe not.

Keina: You’re losing it. Yeah.

Muhawu: Leaning on those resources. Very small group though. But still that are able to also kind of say, okay, if I can’t get to, I remember we did this unintentional intentional models. So if I can’t sit down and write things out, a lot of the times I talk it out. And when I know that it’s not going well, just in my head I’m like, okay, who is that one or those two people that I can just really hit up really quickly and say, this is what I’m thinking.

Keina: I remember you having a really great network and I’m glad that you are still, you got that community still connected to you.

Muhawu: Yeah. I was afraid they were all going to leave me while I decided to like check out.

Keina: You didn’t check out, you took an intentional career break. And they’re probably like how does she get money to take an intentional career break?

Muhawu: No, but they’ve been following because that’s why I was telling you before we got on the recording, that there are some people who are like, they’re like, oh, so your financial coach, did you talk to? I was like, oh, I haven’t spoken to her in like two years, but sometimes I talk about you or things that I learned. And they’re like, oh yeah, that coach. Wait, what do you mean you haven’t spoken? I was like, no this is what I learned back in 2021. So when I told my parents last night, I was like, yep, I’m having an interview with Keina. They’re like, oh, so are you starting a next phase? Because they know at least I’m not involved in partnership. But I was like, no, I’m not really. They’re like, okay. They may not know you by name, but they know the financial coach. 

Keina: That is so funny. I’m a household title.

Muhawu: The network knows.

Keina: Well, is there anything that we didn’t talk about that we should have talked about or that you want to say?

Muhawu: No, I hope that through our conversations, your listeners understand that at least for me, my pre-partnership self and my post-partnership self, there’s a lot that’s shifted that I came in very skeptic, I am a skeptical person. Keina has stories. She could tell you I’m very skeptical many times throughout the partnership. But I do credit you a lot Keina for where I am right now. I know you said, I need to credit myself and I do, I do that too. But I do believe that the space that you created during our partnership has allowed for me to understand how to do that in my own life post-coaching, because quite frankly, I didn’t know how it was going to go. I’m like, okay, so after five months there’s no more. So like, how does this actually work? No, to be honest, and to see that almost three years later, it has worked for me and I’ve been passing on, sometimes successfully, sometimes not so successfully what I’ve learned. And that people at least in my life have seen a shift. So I just want to thank you for that.

Keina: You’re welcome. And I received that. And thank you for sharing this ripple effect though with our listeners, because no matter who’s listening, whether it’s past clients or people that are considering working with me, being able to connect to somebody else’s story is sometimes that little recharge that you need to take the next step. So I appreciate you.

Muhawu: I do too.

Keina: Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to Money Files. If you’re ready to take the next step to reach your financial goals, head to www.wealthovernow.com/appointment and let’s get started.