Keina And Jenny Talk No Restriction Budgeting And Nutrition

Money Files

On today’s episode, I am joined by fitness and nutrition coach Jenny Blake. Together we discuss the similar mindset women have around budgeting and nutrition and how simple mindset shifts can change how you reach goals.

Successfully balancing your nutrition or budget is all about identifying and clarifying your values. Neither principles are about restriction. Instead, the tools Jenny and I empower our clients to use are designed to create a foundational structure you can rely on.

There is a massive overlap between finances, nutrition, and fitness. Achieving your financial and nutrition goals is about learning what holds value for you. Whether that means incorporating your favorite foods into a meal plan or budgeting for travel, these plans are not restrictive. Instead, they are a way to introduce consistency in a manageable and attainable way for your long-term growth and success.  

Listen to this episode as Jenny and I tackle key topics like…

[00:03:14] The huge overlap between finances, nutrition, and fitness.

[00:04:40] Whether we’re talking about macros or we’re talking about a budget, going through this process helps you identify your values

[00:42:01] What do you do when you fail?

[00:46:10] You are your average.

Tune in to this episode of Money Files to learn more about the huge overlap between finances, nutrition, and fitness.

Are you ready to start asking for help with your finances? Apply to work with me, and let’s start working towards your financial goals.


Transcript for “Keina and Jenny Talk No Restriction Budgeting and Nutrition”

Keina: Hi and welcome to Money Files. I’m Keina Newell from Wealth Over Now. I work every day with professional women and solopreneurs to help them get out of financial overwhelm and shame, so they can experience more flexibility and ease with their finances. Are you ready to gain confidence and learn to manage your finances intentionally? Tune in and grab financial tips that will help you master the way you think about and manage your finances.

Keina: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Money Files. Today I am with my friend Jenny. Jenny, the nutritionist or also Jenny Blake.

Jenny: Hello everyone. Thank you for having me.

Keina: Thank you for agreeing to have this conversation with me. So you just want to go ahead and introduce yourself and then I can tell you about how I had this amazing idea and why we’re here.

Jenny: Yes, let’s do it. So I’m Jenny, the nutritionist and I coach ladies who lift weights and want to build muscle and decrease body fat. So my ladies are already consistent in the gym, working hard in the gym, but are wondering why they don’t look like they’re working hard in the gym. And so I have a four month coaching program called Create Your Shape that really works them through the science and the strategy but also the application and the lifestyle aspects of having a shape that represents the work that you’re putting in.

Keina: I love it. So Jenny and I met in a mastermind that we were in and I knew that Jenny like was, I feel like a macro specialist, which I’ve always dabbled in macros and I feel like I was watching, this is actually one memory I have, is you were coming to Cabo and I was coming to Cabo and I was like, Jenny, you need to tell me what I need to eat when I’m going to be in Cabo. I’m just going to eat whatever you eat. That’s one thing I remember saying to you and something that you actually said to me was, I’m going to get it slightly wrong, but you basically told me that like I’m the average of what I eat. 

Jenny: Yes.

Keina: And it’s one of the thoughts that you offered me. And I was like, oh my goodness, that’s so profound because it made me not think about, I think about perfectionism when it comes to like fitness related or nutrition related things in my life, which like fast forward I’ve followed your content and every once in a while you say something that I’m like, oh, I’m going to take this. I’m going to steal this from Jenny. Especially because I am someone who’s worked out for a long time and just thinking about like how I want to feel about my body and in my body. And then we’ve also had side conversations about how our work overlaps in so many ways, like when we think about nutrition and finances, so I’m like Jenny we need to like talk about this on a podcast because I think I make analogies all the time with my clients and just force them to listen to my life stories. But I think there are benefits for both of our audiences in having this discussion because I think you want to be good at finances and nutrition. I’m just going to leave it there.

Jenny: Yes, totally agree. And I think there’s a huge overlap between finances and nutrition, fitness and then probably could be applied to other areas of our life. But I know we’re just going to talk about the crossovers between those two but I remember we were in a small breakout room together and you had like color coordinated pencils and highlighters going through and like it was so particular but so pretty in your like notebooks and the whole thing and everything was so clean and I was like who is this girl? I like her because I do think we both share and along with our audiences like very type A professional go-getter. For me it’s specifically ladies but just people in general because that’s probably who we are. 

But at the same time I wouldn’t identify me or you as a robot. We do like having a lifestyle. We do like, I wouldn’t even call them splurges, but we like to like live life. And so I feel like there’s that connection as well because we are type A, we do like to achieve things with both financially and with nutrition and fitness, but we also like to enjoy ourselves, which I think that’s kind of a misconception that people get. All in and either don’t spend a dime and you budget down to the dime or track every gram or not. That’s not the case.

Keina: Yeah it has to be like all or nothing. And you said something before we started recording because we were like running down our notes and you were like if we’re talking about macros or we’re talking about a budget and going through this process, it helps you identify your values.

Jenny: Yeah so something that was huge with me and I feel like it may not have been of like obvious or an aha my like financial journey as my nutrition because obviously I just think about it and talk about it more. But I definitely see the overlap where with my nutrition I remember just kind of, I like food, I like all food and even the grocery store, bakery, I’d be oh that looks good today. And once I got further along the journey it just helps me identify what I actually valued in terms of nutrition. And so one example of that is I don’t enjoy and don’t really value the grocery store bakery. Like I value good tasting food. So if I wanted something from like a bakery then I would go to an actual bakery and get that and probably get that, I don’t know, maybe like once a quarter versus going to the bakery grocery store once or twice a week and seeing that and like wanting that and then having that like mental battle in my head of like, oh well should I have that? Should I not have that? 

But now it’s just like a no, whereas I really value going out to eat with my friends. So that’s going to be in my plan. The crappy, which everyone has their own taste but the cakes and the bakery at the grocery store, it’s just a no for me now. And I can see the same thing with my, like we were talking about my skincare routine. That’s something I really value when I spend a high dollar on this seven steps nighttime routine. And I love the way it feels and I love the way how I feel like it’s investing in the future of my skin. Whereas I don’t value brand name things. I don’t have any of the Gucci and there’s nothing wrong if you do value that, it’s just not for me. And so it just, again getting clear on a budget helped me really see like, oh I don’t value this, I do value this so I can spend money in this area. I don’t want to spend money in this area.

Keina: Well I mean one of the things I just wrote down was like the opportunity to define your life. And one of the things that I’ve noticed as I’ve gotten older, like thinking about like out of my twenties is, I think in my twenties still trying to find myself if you will, like you kind of can go with the flow of what other people are doing. And so you may not know your own interest or the word we’ve been using is values. And so there’s not a lot of purpose behind what you’re doing. You’re like, I mean for me I can say like I’m just following my friends. Like ooh I think I’m supposed to have this bag or I’m supposed to have these clothes or even signing up for this fitness class. And so in thinking about that, I think that the tools that we both use with our clients, a budget or macros really give you an opportunity to define your life.

Jenny: That’s such a good way to put it. Yeah, totally agree.

Keina: And I feel like we should back up in case someone listening, I know what macros are and I feel like everybody knows what a budget is and they’re probably cringing right now because I’ve said budget like a hundred times. But what are macros?

Jenny: I mean it’s a really good way to describe it, is it’s a budget around your nutrition. So one of the biggest things I teach for my ladies is that quantity or the amount you’re eating is more important than the quality of what you’re eating. So once you realize that oh it’s the amount of food, not necessarily how like clean or healthy it is, you can then lean into that to create the shape that you want to create to build muscle, to decrease body fat. And so if you take calories, which is the quantity of food and you double click down, it’s a spreadsheet analogy, double click down on them, they are made up of macronutrients and so everyone’s pretty much familiar with them. There are three of them and it’s protein, carbs, and fats. 

And let’s say for example I need 130 grams of protein per day. Well, I could get that in fish or meat or chicken or there’s going to be some protein in beans. I can get all of those in throughout my day to equal that 130 grams of protein. Same with carbs, same with fats and like I mentioned, carbs, fats and proteins, they are what makeup calories. So that’s kind of the short of it. But you can see how it’s very much like a budget. So for your day you essentially have a macro, your macro targets, which that’s going to be your budget for the day of food.

Keina: I mean I have really enjoyed macros and the budget aspect really works for me because it’s not restrictive in my opinion, which is also what I think about budgets in general, that they’re like not restrictive because you get to make a plan for what it is that you value and being able to incorporate those things, which one of the reasons like I was saying earlier and talking to Jenny about it as well is like I wanted to do this podcast episode because I feel like with the type A women that we serve, I have a lot of clients that I think are really good with their fitness. 

And so it’s like I want to unearth that like that area of your life that you feel really successful. Like how can you translate it over to your finances? And I think also with your women, like if you are really great at macros, which like can be a learning curve, especially when you’re like how do I read this nutrition label? But if you understand that in your world, it’s like okay well then how do you translate that over to your finances to feel just as successful?

Jenny: Yeah. And I think having the skill rate goes across both. So for example, I have a lot of ladies who are accountants or directors of finance and they absolutely crush it in the program and with macros because same thing, they’re viewing it as a budget but they’re viewing it as a tool that’s going to help them get where they want to go versus others who may view it as something that they feel is restrictive and feels like it’s controlling them and not necessarily the other way around. Then I also have people who, or I’m sure you have some people and I have some people who found the skill and nutrition or who already have the skill in finance and now they’re trying to apply it to nutrition but they’re not realizing that it’s the same skill that they could apply on either one. Do you find that too?

Keina: Oh definitely. I was talking to my client who’s actually not a woman, he’s a man and we were talking about how in the gym, which isn’t food, but it was like still related. He was like in the gym, like my trainer tells me about these like little tweaks like to my form and how they like completely shift how much weight I’m able to lift. And so we were like in a session and I’m like, yeah, like we’re doing the same thing with your finances. And generally speaking, I feel like with my people it’s like it’s more so emotional in terms of like how we’re thinking about spending money. Like we were actually talking about he was debating whether or not he wanted to buy tickets to go see Kelly Clarkson and he also has tickets to go see Beyonce, Janet Jackson and Taylor Swift. 

Jenny: Taylor Swift too. Dang.

Keina: Right, like he enjoys these experiences. 

Jenny: That’s what he values. 

Keina: Yeah, that’s what he values. But I guess like in terms of a tweak and thinking about like the Kelly Clarkson, I was like how important is this to you? And let’s actually drill down to like what you’re making it mean if you can or can’t go. And then he is told me about all these other times that he’s seen Kelly Clarkson, how he’s basically touched her hand. I’m like, it sounds like you could die really happy without going to the concert and thinking about how else you might want to use this money to fund some other goal. So like for me as a coach, I’m like, it’s just tweaking how you think about your purchasing decisions. And it doesn’t have to mean that like, because I can’t go to this concert. It’s not because you can’t go, you’re choosing and you’re making an intentional choice and a decision about how you want to spend your money.

Jenny: Yes. The crossover I can see with this is I’ll have my ladies just track what they’re currently eating without even adding the like macro targets or aka the budget on topic. Like let’s just see what you’re currently doing. Then we can go and see what they actually need and measure it against their macro targets and it’s like, oh yeah, you don’t have to like completely do a 180. Like I actually don’t have them, I don’t give them a meal plan, I don’t give them specific meals. I’m like no, I want you to eat what you’re already currently eating and enjoying and then let’s take that and then see, oh actually you need to get in about 20 to 40 grams more protein per day. How can we just tweak things to get to that or you actually need to get more carbs in. 

In this whole time throughout your day you’ve been like stressing because you’re like, oh I shouldn’t be eating this, I shouldn’t be eating this. But actually now that we know what you actually need, you actually need more. And we can just tweak that. Oh and then your fats look good. So again, I feel like it’s not so much about like, oh it’s like something else I have to do or I have to change. It’s just like looking into being like, oh I’m actually just fine tuning this and I’m not that far off. And kind of going in like you said, a little deeper to it.

Keina: I love that you talked about like using and leveraging what you already have because I know one of the things we talked about wanting to dive into, is I feel like there’s a negative connotation if you will, especially with women on the word like diet, which if you are talking about macros, like someone might hear diet and I mean I remember my mom on the sun flash culture, Jane Fonda. So like I feel like a lot of my ladies are raised by those types of women. And then equally like when we think about budgets, I feel like people are like, no, I’m not going to have a budget because it means restriction. And so does a diet, it means restriction. 

And so you may be in one of two camps where you’re like, I’m not going to budget because I don’t want to be restricted and I’m not going to diet because I’ve done that so many times and I’m living in this space where I’m restricted and that’s not how I want to live. So I’m just curious like with your clientele, like how do you reframe that thought pattern for them and what we would know as like a thought error that like macros are restrictive or dieting is restrictive.

Jenny: Yeah. I love this and I have two things I want to talk about. So the first one is, and this is very specific to my ladies, who typically I see 99% of them aren’t eating enough. Because in their head they’re like, oh I should be eating less, I should be eating less. And so that’s like on average, that’s what their days look like. When really if you want to build muscle and you want to set your metabolism up to decrease body fat, you have to do that first through eating enough. So 99% of the time that ladies come to me, that’s the first step is to get them eating enough. And if you’re looking for specifics in numbers, typically for ladies who are lifting, that’s going to be 2000 calories or more per day. Where typically they’re eating 1200, 1400, 1500 and telling themselves like, oh I should be eating less, I should be eating cleaner.

And so that is like the first thing that I think it does the opposite. Where it opens up their eyes to be like, oh actually I need more food. I actually need all of this. And it’s given me actually more food freedom because now I can have other options within this 2000 calories. And so the biggest thing I’ve seen actually is people are like, oh, are you sure I can eat this much? Are you sure? I don’t know. I heard carbs are bad. Are you sure I can have carbs? And so it kind of flips that whole narrative on its head and really creates a whole new like relationship with food. And I’m not sure if you see that at all on the budget side or if you typically see the opposite or maybe in different like buckets you see that they’re like, oh I really need to cut down in this area. But you look at it and you’re like, actually no you can relax a little.

Keina: I definitely do. I wanted to comment on what you said though. Because I feel like if someone’s listening and depending on what lens you’re listening through, I do want to encourage you to go like try macros because it’s more freedom and more options. And I think for myself even, some of the things that I have to constantly work on on my fitness side is like being mindful of where I’m focused on something not working instead of focused on like the ability to actually create new and better results.

Jenny: Okay. Explain that to me a little bit more.

Keina: Because I think that especially if you’re coming from like a diet culture and not wanting to be restricted. You’re scared to kind of jump into something that you’ve already done before. And so like let’s think about macros for instance and even like just quitting before you get started. Like for myself, even though I know macros don’t have to be restricted, that would be one reason that I would quit before I get started because I’m like, there’s going to be something I’m not allowed to eat, which it’s actually not logical because I can plan in whatever I want. And so because I’m focused on this thing that I can’t do, I’m preventing myself from actually getting to a space and a place to be able to do more, to like more lean. Or even in getting to a place where you’re in maintenance and you can increase your calories. And so I just wanted to like, I think stop and underscore that because I think that people who are listening to this, depending on what frame you’re kind of listening to it with, to be like wow, like I’m preventing myself from actually seeing the results that I desire to see because I’m scared of like failing or that hiccup that I always encounter.

Jenny: Yeah. Okay. So two things on that. So I actually just interviewed one of my clients Stacy Tishel and she said, beforehand, she’s like, I had done macros before. I had like been in courses with macros but I never like went for it. I was like, oh yeah, yeah, that’s just something that I like. Maybe I’ll dabble in, but like, oh it’s annoying type of thing. And she was like, so every time. Again, I just dabbled but I wasn’t getting the results I wanted. And so she said, then I signed up for your program and now there was a moment where she really wanted a meal plan. She was like, can you just give me a meal plan that matches my macros? And I was like, no, you need to understand this. Like trust me, once you understand it, it’s going to open up your mind of like how much more freedom this can give you when you actually just understand food.

And she said okay. And then she went and did it and now then she’s on the podcast talking about how great it is because she can switch things out, she can go on vacation, she can do all these things now and she’s built muscle and she’s decreased body fat. And so that just goes to the point of like one, you could just keep going, right? If not, you’re just not going to get the results you want. And so if I just sat around and was like, oh I don’t want to have more money in my, or I want more money, like invested. But I was just like, oh but I don’t want to do that, but I don’t want to do that, but I don’t want to do that. And I just did that for years and years and years. I would still never get the result that I wanted instead of being like, oh okay, I’m going to try this.

Oh I’m going to learn about this. Okay, I’m going to try this again. Oh that way at that time didn’t work but I’m going to try it again, like you just keep trying if you want. I think this goes back to values if you value the result. So I think it’s a combination of education and then values because so many people just don’t understand how it actually works. And I’m sure you feel this way about financials too because it’s like society has put both like budgeting and macros in this kind of form of like, oh it’s restrictive. Oh it’s bad. Oh it’s like not self-care. Like all of these things where I feel like it’s a complete opposite but only because of the education that I have and I try to teach with my ladies and then I really value the result. And so I’m going to figure it out one way or another. And I think a lot of my ladies get to that point too.

Keina: Yeah. It goes back to this piece of reframing the journey and I think for whether people are working with me or working with you because of our, I think our love of life or how we want to live our lives very much influences how we’re supporting the people that we work with. So even like I was just listening to you talk about like I can just keep going and I think like that’s a beautiful thought for anyone to have that’s like trying to change their finances or trying to change the fitness. Or maybe you have it about your finances but you don’t have it about your fitness. Or maybe you have it within your like fitness realm but you don’t have it about your financial realm. And so how do you flip-flop the two to be able to even just think about like, how do I think about my nutrition and my fitness level? Or what are the thoughts that I innately think about them that support me in continuing to keep going? And I feel like that’s a fun exercise to be like, do I think the same with my finances or reverse of that? Of like how do I think about my finances and do I have those same thoughts when it comes to my fitness and nutrition? 

Jenny: Yeah, totally. And something that brought this up for me is I recently was working on my time management and I didn’t realize until I was like halfway through the program of the overlap with nutrition in time management and how I could just apply some of the same things. So for example, I teach something called a nutrition routine. So you set up your week-to-week schedule where a lot of it is repeatable, because that’s how you make things on autopilot. You just make it systematic and simple for you. So that way even if you have a bad day or an off day, like the core, you know, 60 to 80% is already set up for you to be successful. So I realize, okay, for me I have like a meal bank where I have pretty much like 10 to 15 lunches that I just have on rotation. Every now and then when I have more time I’ll find a new one that I add into my meal bank for lunches and add that into the rotation. But it makes it really simple. 

So every week I just pull from that and that’s like my lunch for the week. And again, systematic, not a lot of thinking, it makes it very simple. And then I realize with time management, and I think we’ve talked about Monday hour one before. I realized that oh, like five to seven hours of my week, I’m doing the same thing every week. 

Keina: I can just name it.

Jenny: Yes. And I was like, how did I not realize this? Well before I was like, oh my gosh, I have to plan my whole week. It just seemed impossible. And then I was like, like a third of it is already done. I can just put that reoccurring in the calendar every week. And it was just like this huge aha moment for me. And that was just recent. So it’s top of mine, but I’ve got lots of bills every single month and they’re the exact same every single month. 

Keina: Well I think there are two things that I hear. It’s like being able to have self-awareness. I feel like going through this process can allow you to become more self-aware. And in some areas of your life you probably are self-aware but you don’t even realize because to your point, some things are just on autopilot. So you don’t remember how you even got to where you are because you like haven’t had that, like that opportunity to struggle or whatever you like setting up the system. So being self-aware one and then two, when I hear you talk about your autopilot with like your nutrition, like you have 15 meals and I think one of the things that I want to underscore for people is I don’t think you made your, like you didn’t create those 15 meals overnight. 

And so I think one of the most important things for me when I think about my nutrition and fitness, and I think I was sharing this with you, is like I get better over time. And so being able to recognize that like the journey can be additive and that I don’t have to come out of the gate at a hundred percent, like my a hundred percent is going to look different at different times and then my toolkit is going to expand over time. And I think the same is so true for like finances, it’s true for time management, it’s true for nutrition, but it’s one of those things where I think if you don’t name it for yourself that like, oh yeah, I’m going to like this is something that I can make continual progress on. Then at least for myself, I have a tendency to be really hard on myself about not being at the place that I desire to be. So I see it with my clients a lot where they’re like, but I haven’t paid off all my debt.

I’m like, okay, but what have you done? Like what can you celebrate? And then that’s when they start telling me like, oh, I used to like order DoorDash like eight times a week and then I realize it made me feel bad. And I don’t want to, like I felt nasty like eating the food kind of bad or like I have paid all of my bills on time. Or like I’ve started to put things on autopay and so they are able to recognize other wins that are going to be additive on their way to their larger goal, which is to like pay down the debt. Or they’re able to recognize like, I’m not adding to my debt anymore or I’ve actually saved every single month and I haven’t had to use my savings to pay for anything. So I just wanted to like, yeah, talk about the like self-awareness piece of that journey and then also being able to recognize that like you’re year one and you’re year eight of whatever process you’re following aren’t going to look the same even if you feel like I’m starting over, which, whatever that means.

Jenny: Yeah. It’s a continuous journey. I remember when I felt like I got savvy at macros and it’s like, ooh, I’m so good at macros. And then we started traveling the world full-time and that was a whole new learning curve. But same thing, it was like, okay, well now I just have to figure this out. And then the first time we traveled it did not go well but I learned one thing and it was like, oh, okay, that’s good. And then the next time I learned another thing and like over now it’s been, you know, four years, I feel a lot better at it. But it took a long time to get there and it’s always part of the journey that you’re always going to want to improve. And I think that this is definitely something I see with my ladies, is that they’re always going to want to evolve and they’re always going to want to improve.

And that’s not a problem. Like that’s okay as long as you’re recognizing how far you’ve come. Like I remember one of my ladies saying, oh like last year I went on this same vacation with all of our family and I felt awful afterwards coming back of like, just like literally I felt like, this kind of like bloated and sick in my body and just not great and I wasn’t on track and this time I still enjoyed myself but I maintained through the whole time and they’re like that is huge for me. And that’s not the same as, oh I built 10 pounds of muscle and lost 20 pounds of body fat. But I feel like the micro shifts that happen in each like step along the way, like that’s what makes you feel good every single day. Like those are the ones that like add up to the bigger picture.

Keina: Well I think it comes back to anyone listening to this podcast, I want them to understand of like the tools that we use, which are a budget or macros, being able to reframe how you’re using those tools. Because I think that so often it’s like restriction, you want me to diet, you don’t want me to spend money? And it’s like, no, we want you to have a life that’s like full of the way you want to feel. We want you to have life that’s like full of the experiences that you desire to create. Like earlier when you were talking about how your women are using macros, like I know for budgeting, I think the ahas that people have, they’re like, oh wow. Like I can actually do the things that I said I wanted to do in my head, like save money or pay down debt or travel when I actually put the numbers in, like I’m able to do more and it’s not being able to do it from a place, like losing the stress that they once felt.

Because I think oftentimes there’s stress around like if I spend money based off the balance in my bank account, then I’m going to have to be worried about it in a week if I should have spent that money. And so they’re able to use your word of like having things on autopilot. Like they can put savings on autopilot or just being able to hand their credit card over to pay for a meal for all of their friends and not have to worry about whether or not, that one, they can’t pay their credit card off from that meal. Or if that’s going to impact some other goal or some immediate expense that they have in their life. Like they don’t have those worries anymore. So I’ve seen for my people that like budgeting allows them to feel the same thing that you talk about with macros, like more freedom and more options. Like I like to talk about budgeting being in this space where like it’s expansive because you get to think about the things you want to be able to do.

Jenny: Oh, you’re going to love this. So currently my boyfriend and I, Erin are living in Indonesia and so it is very inexpensive there, which is fantastic for so many ways. But we’re thinking about within the next couple of years coming back and potentially settling down in the States. So my boyfriend is like the people we’re describing and he’s got it down when it comes to nutrition, right? Like he is the person that’s like every macro is down to the gram, like all his training is tracked down to the kilo, like everything right? However us talking about this and moving back to the States is like a huge stressor for him because he is envisioning this like big life that he wants to live and like all these opportunities and things that he wants to do and have and all of that. 

And then he’s like, oh my gosh, the States is so expensive, like compared to where we’re living now. And so every time we mention it’s just like this big like and so actually tonight we are meeting to map out our dream, like United States living house, everything situation, and then actually going to put numbers to that and of how much that would actually cost and how much that would mean for a monthly budget. And so that I feel like is what you’re talking about because I’m like, oh my gosh, this is going to be so fun. I can’t wait to dream up all of the things. And then like actually quantify it to put numbers to it. And I think that’s going to be so helpful for both of us because then we can say like, okay, well is there a variance? Is there not, how much do we need to start saving now for that? Like just actually make steps to then achieve that.

And to me it feels like so empowering, but I think it’s a perfect example of what you’re talking about, but then also of like how in one area it can be so dialed in and you can just kind of apply that to the next area because he has a spreadsheet that has his exact plan of the amount of muscle he’s going to build like every single week. Like, it’s a full bottle. And he’s so excited about it because he knows in X weeks he’s going to have gained X amount of muscle. And so same thing, it’s like to him that’s so exciting and freeing and like the path and now we’re going to just apply that to our financial.

Keina: Now I’m like Erin, what thoughts do you have about your fitness training that you don’t have about your money?

Jenny: I know I told him he needs to hire you. 

Keina: Because it’s like, and most times I think what I see is that everyone’s like, I’m not good at math. So I feel like it goes back to like their elementary career and I’m like, I was a math teacher, you’re not allowed to say that we’re going to make you fall in love with numbers. You’re going to be okay. But I feel like those little beliefs that are like hidden. But yes, Erin, can you DM me through Jenny and please tell me what are the thoughts you have about your fitness that you don’t have about your money?

Jenny: So I have a theory and I think it also applies that I see to a lot of my ladies and I’m curious your thoughts about this. I think it is really important to be able to estimate, whether that’s estimating your macros or even estimating your financials. I could tell you off the top of my head of like, oh yeah, my business expenses are X per month. I could break it up into like three categories and be like directional. Whereas if I asked Erin that, he’d be like, I don’t know, I need to pull up my sheet and I’d have to get it down to the penny. And so I feel like if you have to be so precise, but it’s overwhelming because your brain actually can’t memorize all of those numbers, then it feels very overwhelming and stressful. 

Where I do feel like there’s beneficial to maybe have that, but also to be able to just categorize and be able to estimate. Same with macros. I teach my ladies how to estimate macros because if not, they’re thinking like I have to weigh every single thing I put into my mouth. I have to bring a food scale when I go out to dinner, when I go over to my mom’s house for dinner. And they’re like, that feels way too overwhelming and precise. And I’m like, no. Like yes, that could be a tool that we use at some point, or maybe when you’re home, but also let’s learn how to estimate food and estimate portions. So when you do go out to eat or when you do go on vacation or where you, like you’re just in a rush, you can eyeball it and feel very directional and you can make a lot of progress at 80%.

Keina: Yeah, no, I like your theory about estimation because I think the example that I would give, if this one always comes up, people are like, I don’t know how much I spend on groceries. And I’m like, it’s okay. Like even in the beginning I’ll just tell someone, just tell me like in the last two weeks how much you spent when you went to Trader Joe’s, Whole Foods, whatever. And I’m like, great, we’ll just like double it. Like it’ll give us a number to start with. And let’s say you are saying I’m going to spend $500 on groceries, that doesn’t have to be set in stone. And so you have like some flexibility around it. You might figure out that you’re like, crap, I totally underestimated that number or I have excess left over every month. 

But then like as you get to know, it’s so important for me to help people understand their habits. So I’m like, your budget is a tool. If you said you were going to spend $500 and you spend $505, you do not have to throw it out the window. Like it is not saying that you are bad, that you don’t know how to manage your money. Let’s just see if that happens again this month. Because what it might be telling us is that you need more money for your groceries or there’s like some things that we haven’t considered, but if we’re actually paying attention to what you are doing and what your habits are, you’re going to get the most ideal budget for you.

And you’re going to know like where you can splurge and where you maybe don’t want to splurge or if you splurge somewhere where you’re like, oh, I didn’t have as much money over there. But you know, like where you have a wiggle room somewhere else. So yes, I think I like that analogy because I think it takes all of the but what ifs because I think a lot of my people come to me very anxious and they’re anxious about like, but I don’t know the unexpected expense that I can’t expect because it’s unexpected. And I’m like, yes and we could look at the last six months of your life and be like, what are some of the things that we could potentially plan for and tell me about the next six months of your life. 

Like I generally can pick up on what people enjoy doing where I’m like, oh you have friends coming into town. And so like you enjoy entertaining or you enjoy maintaining relationships. And so those are things where I will tell people like, you probably need more set aside for food because I know when I have friends coming to town, I’m buying more groceries or we are going out to eat more. And so you want a little bit more fluidity in those spaces. 

Jenny: And can I just add to that really quick? Because you’re specifically talking about going out to eat. I feel like this is the perfect overlap. This is the exact same thing you would do with your nutrition. Like, oh, I’m going to have friends in town, I’m going to be going out to eat more. Like same thing, I would budget for that financially, but I would also budget for that on the nutrition side. Like yeah I would just make more room to be able to do that and that’s okay.

Keina: Yeah. When you talk about that, like at least my personal journey, when I think about it on the nutritional side, it’s about building trust with myself and I don’t know how you’re like, well I guess I could be one of your ladies but that’s how I describe it, where you’re like I’m not sure, but it’s like if you have the experience and you can kind of evaluate how it went instead of beating yourself up, you learn to have more capacity for it over time.

Jenny: Yeah. It’s almost like it’s a project. Like one way I describe it to my ladies is like, this is a project that you’re going to complete. And so all of it is we’re going to collect a lot of data and we’re going to look at the facts. So we’re going to let the facts determine where we’re making progress, what we need to adjust on the plan and what we need to do as far as that side. But then we’re also going to realize that you’re a human being that has thoughts and emotions and those are all valid too. And so we’re going to talk about that too. But we’re not going to let your emotions drive everything when the facts are telling us something different. So let’s get all the data out and let’s use that as our guide. And I think that’s what a lot of people are used to like waking up and being a little fluffier and being like, oh my gosh, I’m awful.

I’m so terrible. I need to cut calories. Where really it’s like, okay, what are the facts? Oh, I went to dinner, I had more salt and inflammatory oils last night and therefore I’m inflamed today. That doesn’t mean I’ve gained body fat, I’m just inflamed. That’ll go down in the two days. Okay, like you can make just clear header, more clear decisions when you’re looking at the facts. And it sounds to me like budget versus actual, I was in corporate finance back in the day. Everything’s budget, and then the actuals come in for the month and then you can see the variances, see the differences. Like those are the facts. But imagine if a corporation was just ran on like, oh I don’t know, I feel like I’ve been spending way too much. I’m going to fire everybody on the team.

That would just be like not a great way to run a business and it wouldn’t be very like factual. And if you were to have this project plan, where the project is like maybe it’s saving a certain amount, like for my ladies, it’s like building your shape to a certain amount. Like that’s the project plan and we want to have timelines, we want to have start dates, we want to have numbers that go along with that. We want to have like key metrics that we’re tracking to see if we’re progressing, we’re not progressing and like we want to make decisions based on that. Not just if you wake up in a bad mood because that’s going to happen.

Keina: I feel like you were speaking to me for a moment. Yeah. Waking up bloated. It’s a real thing.

Jenny: It is for me too and I think we can talk about this too, the boomerang effect. So I think because we have a bunch of go-getter human beings that think like, oh I’m just going to get this plan from you or me and I’m just going to execute on it and it’s all going to be perfect and I’m going to hit my savings goal and I’m going to hit my body fat goal and that’s it. And then it all works perfectly. And then I go on and live a happy ever after. Then they realize that they make some progress and then an old habit comes in and things don’t go very well and then they make some progress and then, oh a life situation happened where they had to kind of pivot their priorities for a second. Okay, then they make more progress. And it’s like the boomer effect where you kind of take a couple steps forward, one step back, couple steps forward, one step back. 

And this has for sure happened to me for a handful of reasons, but still looking back over the years, I’ve still progressed tremendously and the same with my ladies. And I feel like there’s this expectation that they’re like, I’m an achiever, I’m an executor, I’m going to do this first shot. And there’s no learning curve or grace or time period to just actually implement it into their life.

Keina: Yeah. I mean I think that’s a part of the reframing conversation in this too is just to think about, what do you do when you fail?

Jenny: Oh. Such a good question. 

Keina: That’s how you have to learn to have your own back. Melissa, one of our other like coach friends, one of the questions and I’ve started to ask people that I work with is like, what would you tell your best friend? You can give your best friend the best advice. I know I do.

Jenny: Of course

Keina: But it’s the advice sometimes that you don’t actually take for yourself. And I actually just have two clients right now. One of them is getting ready to wrap up working with me for five months and another one more in the middle of her five months. But it’s almost like she feels like things are too good to be true. So she’s waiting for something to drop. She’s like Keina, like I’m not using my credit card and I’m saving money and I haven’t had to dip into my savings. I know something’s going to go wrong. And so we’ve been talking about planning for financial failure because I do think it’s a matter of when not if something happens and it could be, oh my goodness, all four tires went out. Or maybe you did spend more than you desired to spend over the weekend.

But some of the exercises that I’ve been doing with people is just tell me the things that are in your head that you think you’re going to fail at. And let’s just try to already build a protocol for like, if this happens, how do you want to get back on track? Which I think like when I think about my nutrition, let’s take the, oh my goodness, I plan to eat out but maybe I had one too many bites of an appetizer. And so it’s like the next day my plan needs to be to get back on track and not be like, let me just go eat another nasty meal. And when I say nasty meal, like a meal that’s going to make me feel nasty. And so like that’s how I would say like on the nutrition side that I’d be like, let me plan for my like failure and thinking about my old habits versus a new habit that I want to adopt.

Jenny: Something that I used to do, and I think my ladies do a lot too, is kind of like you mentioned before, it’s like you had a bad weekend or more sugary things, more drinks, more whatever, and then your body’s going to naturally crave that. So then come Monday I used to be like okay, you got to be a hundred percent like be a hundred percent but my body and I’m tired. So I’m trying to be a hundred percent on top of being tired and my body is craving like sugars and things like that. So I used to do that and then I would fail and then I’d get mad at myself and then I’d feel guilty and it’s like this vicious cycle. And so what I’ve started to do and what I’ve worked on with my ladies, actually one of my ladies was just really sick for like two weeks. And so same thing, she’s like oh my gosh, I’m missing progress. I got to get back on it a hundred percent. And instead, going to the foundation, like the foundational piece is first. So I teach something called having a structure, which you were in macro month, so you’re familiar with it.

Keina: I have macro quarter.

Jenny: Yes. Macro quarter. The boomerang effect was in there. So the first is just like, okay, how many times am I eating per day? I’m just going to start with that. Oh I’m going to have three meals and two snacks, like that’s my routine all the time. For everyone it’s going to be different but like know what that is. So I may not go back on Monday and track my macros perfectly down to a T, but I’m like I can start with my structure. I can start with that because that’s going to kind of help reset me and not have me graze all day and kind of like pulling candy off someone’s desk and all of that. So it’s like start with that and then from there, once I feel like okay I’ve got my structure down, feel good with that in the next couple of days I’m like okay, now I’m ready to create my plate at each meal.

Meaning that’s when I teach my ladies, it’s where you get a protein, carbon vegetable at each meal and that’s like the next step. So it’s kind of like taking you instead of from going that all or nothing to like that, you’re like stepping up the ladder and I can’t emphasize this enough because you are your average. Literally if you did the math, if you rated yourself every day over a month from one to a hundred percent and if you were a hundred percent a couple days and then 0% and then like 20%, that’s not what we want. We want you to hang out around that 80%, some days a little higher, some days a little lower because you can make a ton of progress on 80% and these steps of like having your structure, creating your plate, they get you to like 50 to 60% already. So I think that has been something that’s been really helpful for me and my ladies. I don’t know your thoughts on it. 

Keina: No, I mean I think it’s like having a failure protocol and you don’t even, maybe we don’t need to call it a failure protocol if that’s triggering. But it’s like knowing what tools you have in your toolkit to be like, these are the tools that I have that can help me get back on track. And so that’s what I’m constantly bringing people back to, to be like, what tools do you have? What do you know now that maybe you didn’t know a month ago? What do you know now that you didn’t know six months ago, a year ago? Because I think that brings them, you said a word earlier, the micro shifts, like it gets them back into that place where they can recognize that they haven’t lost all their progress even though in that moment they’re like, it’s all over to be able to really answer the question like, is that true?

Jenny: Yes. In quantifying that. Like actually quantifying it. And this is where I go back to like what is the facts and what is the science because you just feel really bad. You feel like you’ve lost everything and it sucks and then all of that. But it’s like, let’s go back to the facts. Oh actually you were off this week. And depending on what phase, like if they’re in the calorie deficit phase and they’re off for a week, then that’s going to be a non progress week. And it’s like, yeah you’re going to have a couple non progress week. So just count that into the plan. So then what does that actually mean? Well that means you’re not going to make progress this week and depending if you are over X amount of calories, then you could potentially not make progress the next week too.

Or it could just be this week, but what does that actually mean? It means you’re just pushing your goal out one week and they’re like, oh I’m just moving instead of like hitting this body fat percentage on July 25th, I’m just hitting it on the 31st instead. And I’m like, yeah. And they’re like, oh okay, that’s not so bad. I’m like, yeah, you’re not going to care. You’re not going to care two week later because you’re still going to be making progress along the way. And so like quantifying that I think really helps my ladies too because I think it comes back, I think most of us just want to feel in control. We don’t want something controlling us. We don’t want the budget controlling us. We don’t want like the macros controlling us or like, god forbid the app, the tracking app or QuickBooks controlling us. Like we want to feel in control. And I think like we’ve gotten to the other side of that where we see that. Where people may not know that that’s possible. 

Keina: And I mean one of the things I’ve been talking about in some of my marketing and talking to people is I’m like, you’re living a more restricted life not having a budget.

Jenny: Totally agree.

Keina: And I think the same is true, especially like if you’re someone. I think I can say that about macros too, because of the fact that you have this, what I call like a, like when there’s a hum in your house, like I call it a financial hum. It’s like this space or being in a place where you’re like, there’s a noise that you just, it absorbs into just like your living space. But if somebody else were to come over, they’re like, what is that noise? And I feel like that’s how people live in an existence. Like if your finances is something that’s always annoyed you, you just settled with a status quo and so you’re like, I’m not restricted, I can spend on whatever. And I’m like, no, but you talk about it all the time and you’re up at night.

And so you have this financial hum. And I think the same is true, like thinking about somebody who maybe doesn’t feel good in their clothes or you are going to the gym five days a week and you’re like, I still don’t look like I work out. So it’s like you are living just like this fake life really because you are resisting actually having some type of system that allow you to create the result that you desire because you’re fearful that you won’t be in control. That you’re going to be restricted when actually you’re going to have more freedom and more options.

Jenny: Yeah. It’s definitely a tool. And I feel like, I’m trying to think of what is the main, because I think it’s been a minute probably for both of us when we have the aha and I’m trying to think like what is their maybe exact thought or belief around these like budgets or macros that stops them from seeing that, oh, it’s just a tool to help me get there. 

Keina: I think the thought that I hear the most, and I don’t think that people say it, but it’s said in different ways. It’s like, will it work for me?

Jenny: Yeah. And what do you say when someone says something similar to that?

Keina: Yes.

Jenny: Duh. Why do you think I’m doing it for everybody?

Keina: I mean like honestly, like if I’m in a consult with someone, like I’m getting down to like what their fear is. And so generally speaking, for my people, I feel like it’s being able to acknowledge that you need help and it can be in a lot of different kind of flavors. Like the acknowledgement that I need help, but I’m also a very successful person. I think that stands in the way a lot. I had one of my clients who interestingly enough, she’s a Latina woman and she was like, I’m the oldest in my family, so culturally speaking I’m supposed to be able to figure things out on my own and so being able to admit that I need help and then ask for help, like I had to get over that. And so I feel like those are a lot of the ways that I see it showing up for my people.

Jenny: One thing I see, which this would be an interesting conversation, is yes, I definitely see the like will it work for me? But I kind of think my people are like, will I work for it? Like will I stick to it? Will I do it? And I think. Again, I think that’s just like a misunderstanding of how food actually works and how much freedom you can have. So that’s one part of it. The other part of it is I feel like health and fitness is not something that is typically budgeted for and maybe like a $30, $50 monthly gym membership. But what changed that for me is when I was a financial analyst in San Diego. So a very expensive place making I guess decent money for me, but still not at the top of the totem pole by any means. 

And I started doing CrossFit that was $200, $225 per month. And so that’s like a huge investment to me. But at the same time I bought a car that I got a five grand upgrade because it had leather seats in a thing where I can unlock my car without the key.

Keina: Keyless entry.

Jenny: Yes, which I’ll say I do love, but again, it wasn’t, like I didn’t bat an eye at that, but I was like, oh my gosh, 225 bucks a month for CrossFit, which I went to every single day and it completely changed my life and I absolutely loved it. And that was like the first time that I created a budget for fitness and for health. And then same thing, like my first bikini show that I did, it was going to be three grand. And when you tell other people that, they’re like, what? You’re going to pay that much? And that was just for coaches. Just for the coaches for it. And it was like this, like your insane type of feedback for one, doing something like that, but two for paying that much money for it. But it completely changed my understanding of how food works, how nutrition worked, how I had so much control and I can just like turn the knobs to create what I wanted. Like that was what it cost me. I’m like, oh my gosh, I would pay that 10 times over because of the value that I got out of it. But I just think it’s not common. I think it’s becoming more common, but I don’t think it’s that common to budget for health, fitness, getting labs done, all that. What do you see? 

Keina: I feel like it’s not an acceptable way to use money. Like when you’re talking about the car, people are like, oh yeah, of course you would pay for keyless entry. You wouldn’t dare unlock your car with just a regular key. 

Jenny: No, never. 

Keina: Versus other things that you like, you CrossFit. Like I can see some people gawking at spending $200, which I live in DC I’m like, oh sounds normal to me but like that’s not an acceptable expense. So yes, I think that’s definitely true. I think the thing that resonated with me most when you were just talking was you talking about like, will I work for it, is I think that that’s another shift, one that I’m actually recognizing in my nutrition journey right now. Is this like am I choosing a lifestyle or am I choosing like a temporary goal? And so I wrote like temporary versus lifestyle because even thinking about this like will I work for it? It makes me think of a get rich quick kind of thing, but being able to recognize, especially with nutrition and fitness, it’s like, well is this something that you want for the rest of your life? Like how do you want to feel when you’re 80 and how do you want to feel when you’re 70? 

And so what if you were the person that just did invest in this part of your life, whether with your time, your financial resources, because that’s something that you value, so it becomes a part of your lifestyle. And I think the same is true even on the budgeting aspect. It’s like you used to budget when you made 30K because you wanted to make sure you had enough to pay your bills but what if you just shifted to someone who like, I manage my money well because I want to be able to have choices.

Jenny: So good.

Keina: I think one’s like a lifestyle shift versus like doing something, whether it’s nutrition or financially related because you want a temporary solution, which I think a lot of people are choosing the temporary solutions when they’re like, oh yeah, I’m like the next five paychecks I’m going to put $500 away to go on this trip versus like, just make planning for travel a part of your lifestyle. So it’s just something you do.

Jenny: Yeah. It’s kind of like when people are like, oh I want to get ready for my wedding in a couple of months or just want to look good for this summer. And I honestly typically don’t get those people because they know that like, yeah, I’m not about that. Like I’m about you actually being able to run around with your kids or grandkids when you’re 80 years old. And having the health for the long term and the lifestyle for the long term and then also yeah, the badass shape that goes along with it for now in the long term, but it’s who you are and how you operate. Not a fixed solution or short-term goal.

Keina: Those are definitely some of the shifts I think in between people that are ready versus not ready. Like being able to recognize like, no, I’m, I’m willing and ready to make this decision for me and my lifestyle.

Jenny: Yeah. And I think part of that is being bold, so we’ve talked a lot about values. Like values are pretty much your belief systems and current thoughts and then that’s going to bleed into the actions you take and then therefore the results you have. And so I think a lot of my people are like, oh, I want different results. But they don’t realize that it has to back up to their values and thoughts. And so then shifting those values and thoughts, you have to be bold because for example, like I know you said like you went out this weekend probably had too much drinks, but that would mean showing up, either not going right because you actually didn’t want to do that or going and enjoying yourself in a different way without as many drinks. Or maybe you just had half as many drinks.  

But in that moment that would be someone saying, oh, I got you a drink and handing it to you. I’m just making this up from what I say with my people. Handing it to you and you have to say like, oh, I actually don’t want it. Or oh, in that moment being bold then, that’s like the work, like that’s the hard stuff.

Keina: Yeah. But it’s like what’s the ultimate result that you want that really goes beyond like losing the 20 pounds, the 40 pounds, whatever. I feel like it goes back to the lifestyle piece.

Jenny: Yeah. And I do think in that moment you can get to a place where you feel really good, but during the ship or the transition, it feels like awkward and uncomfortable. I remember when I first started getting into the fitness world and I would come back and hang out with my family, which we live, like in the middle of the nowhere, like Virginia. And my dad would pull up photos of huge bodybuilders that have muscle all coming out their ears and he’d like, oh, I found a picture of you, like making fun of me. But he thought it was being like funny, but for me it’s like, oh it’s uncomfortable or yeah. Oh you on muscle, like hating on people who have muscle. Like I remember too one time I got protein powder and this was before I like knew what I was doing and my roommate made fun of me for having protein powder and I felt so uncomfortable and I remember being like, oh yeah, I probably shouldn’t, like I don’t know what I’m doing.

Like maybe I shouldn’t do this. I should just like try to be skinny like everyone else. And I had to go through that transition, that like awkward moment of figuring it out, kind of shifting who I was. And ultimately that led to me being full on like people know, oh yeah, we can hang out, but I’m also going to go to the gym. Do you want to go to the gym with me? And they’ll be like, no, you do you, now it’s just expected. It’s just expected. People appreciate it, people admire it and ask me questions. And it’s just who I am and how I operate now. And it’s great even with my family and friends who aren’t into it. But that transition period had to be really bold. And I see that a lot from my ladies.

I feel like where people might be scared is I think they have to think that they need to go tell somebody they’re on a budget or like that they’re going to be skewed as like not having money. And I feel like on the coaching side, I’m like, listen, you got to stay outta people’s pockets. Like you don’t know what that person can or can’t do or what life they’re choosing to live that maybe they can or can’t afford. And so I feel like on the coaching aspect, being able to focus on your, I’m using your word again, your micro shifts. But like what are you able to do in your journey? And what I’ve seen with my clients is that people around them are noticing that they’re like shifting like, oh, you have like money for this now or you were just able to travel or you’re not as stressed. 

So like being able to wait for and not even wait for people to notice that, but knowing that the discomfort that they may feel to be like, okay, I might have to tighten the reins this week a little bit, but it’s going to help get me out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle for my next paycheck. Being able to know that like that initial shift is going to have a long-term benefit.

And like for me, I mean actually, gosh, when I was in my twenties I told one of my girlfriends, I couldn’t be at her wedding. Like I was teaching at the time and it was like I didn’t want to go into like debt to be able to be into her wedding, which was very like uncomfortable. But sometimes it’s doing things like that, which I think some of my friends like couldn’t imagine or not my friends, old friends too, or clients or do I ask for a price for something upfront because I don’t want people to think I can’t afford it. I’m like, no, but it’s your money. So like be okay with that uncomfortable situation because I know I have friends, another girlfriend who asked me to be at her wedding and she asked me to be in her wedding late and she knows that I focus on money all the time. And she’s like, I know you’re going to ask me how much it is. I’m like, yeah I am. Like what do you need from me? Because you’re also asking me in this short period of time. And she recognized that. But like that’s also just who I am and how I operate. So everybody expects it.

Jenny: Yep. It’s definitely part of the journey.

Keina: Was there anything that we didn’t say that we need to say Jenny?

Jenny: The only other thing that I had down was around like consistency and routine because I don’t know if you see this where it’s like, okay, I’m going to be all in, I’m really good and then I’m off and then all in really good and then I’m off. Where for me the solution is like you create a routine not at a hundred percent, you create it at like that 80 percent. So that way like you have flexibility in your day to have different foods, to have, you don’t hit your backwards down to the ground. Just setting up for like real life success because consistency is more important than being really good for a couple amount of days. And that was something I was like, I could really see this overlapping with financials.

Keina: Definitely. I mean for my people I’m like, put a money date on your calendar once a week because it gives you that space to like check in with yourself. But also if you’re doing that with some type of consistency a week that you skip or that maybe you don’t show up on that time that you like have it on your calendar. You still have, like going back to your, point about estimating, you still have some type of pulse on your numbers because of the routine that you’ve had. So you know what I call a new financial zero. Like, you know, if you were like going to go in the red and it’s not because it actually is in the red, but like, you know like, oh I have these bills that are coming out or like, I’m going to be spending money in this way. And so that having that consistent time on your calendar does allow you to be able to look at numbers and just know yourself better.

Jenny: Ooh, I like that. I like that you call it a money date too. I think I need to add those in. I would say like monthly I have my money date and then it’s kind of like little checks weekly, but I think the official, put it on the calendar once a week. That sounds really good right now. Alright. Noted. Taking that away.

Keina: Well don’t worry, I’m going to make sure, I get back to my eating structure. I’ve missed my 1 o’clock mealtime for my macro.

Jenny: Love it.

Keina: Well thank you so much and I hope the people that are listening to this podcast that you’ve definitely just taken away some new thoughts. Whether you’re trying to rethink finances or rethink your nutrition, I think there’s a lot that you can learn from Jenny and I.

Jenny: I agree. 

Keina: And Jenny, where can people find you if they want to follow you and learn more about you?

Jenny: Yeah, they can follow me on Instagram at Jenny, the nutritionist. And then if they want to learn more about working together, they can go to jenny the

Keina: Great. And we’ll put that in the show notes as well. Thank you, Jenny.

Jenny: Thank you.

Keina: Thank you so much for listening to money files. If you’re ready to take the next step to reach your financial goals head to and let’s get started. 

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