What happens when your relationship with money is ruled by shame?
In this powerful client interview, Emily shares her deeply personal journey of moving from money avoidance, panic attacks, and “FU spending” to clarity, empowerment, and peace with her finances. Before coaching, Emily’s money habits were fueled by old stories, guilt, and a constant feeling of not doing enough, even while homeschooling four kids and managing a household.
Together, we worked through her “platter of shame,” rewired her money story, and created a system that aligned with her values instead of morality or judgment. Today, Emily not only feels in control of her spending but has also transformed how she communicates about money with her husband and children.
Her story is proof that real financial freedom doesn’t start when you hit a certain number, it starts when you release shame and embrace compassion for yourself.
Listen to learn:
[02:10] How money shame can manifest as panic attacks and avoidance
[05:40] What “FU spending” looks like and why it’s more emotional than financial
[12:15] Why being underfunded isn’t the same as overspending
[20:25] How Emily shifted from level-10 money panic to calm, empowered decisions
[27:45] Breaking the belief that she “owed” her kids certain purchases
[35:10] How adding income became an empowering choice instead of a shame spiral
[42:00] Why small wins, like paying bills on time are just as important as big milestones
Tune into this episode of Money Files to hear Emily’s inspiring journey from money shame to financial freedom and learn how you can start rewriting your own money story.
Are you ready to start asking for help with your finances? Apply to work with me, and let’s start working towards your financial goals.
If you loved hearing Emily’s story of breaking free from money shame, check out Episode 162: Rewriting Your Spending Story: How to Spend with Purpose and Confidence. Together, these episodes will help you see debt and money differently and start building a financial system rooted in compassion and clarity, not shame.
Transcript for “From Panic to Peace: “Even Looking at Bills Made Me Panic” (Emily’s Story)”
Intro: Hi, and welcome to Money Files. I’m Keina Newell from Wealth Over Now. I work everyday with professional women and solopreneurs to help them get out of financial overwhelm and shame so they can experience more flexibility and ease with their finances. Are you ready to gain confidence and learn to manage your finances intentionally? Tune in and grab financial tips that will help you master the way you think about and manage your finances.
Keina: Hi, welcome back to another episode of Money Files. Today I’m with my client Emily, and I think you’re going to really enjoy this podcast episode. I’m just putting it out there. Emily, you can just go ahead and introduce yourself.
Emily: Hi, I’m Emily Hebner. I don’t know what else to include. I live in Virginia. I have four kids that I homeschool and I’ve done tons of work on myself, but money was a hellgate for me as Martha Beck says. It was like something I couldn’t even look at without feeling a shame spiral and even a panic attack. And so I knew that I needed Keina.
Keina: Tell us more about like the panic attack, shame spiral that you were experiencing.
Emily: My parents had two very different ways of dealing with money and I don’t really ever feel like I got maybe the financial education that I need. I don’t want to dog my parents, parenthood is hard, but somewhere along the lines I picked up that I was irresponsible with money. That certainly didn’t come from them. It’s just, the world we live in. And I just never shook it and I assumed what happened is I internalized it as shame and then kept hacking it down and like, well I’m not going to deal with this yet. I’m not going to deal with this. And so over 43 years it just got really dense and really uncomfortable. And even looking at bills or trying to do any mindset work around money would send me totally spiraling. So I used to use budget ynab and that worked really well for me.
That like handled the budgeting part of it, but I didn’t have the mindset part and the skills to make it work. I was kind of doing few spending because I had stuff I hadn’t resolved in myself. And I’m trying to think how to put. It’s kind of exactly like eating. Like I had old stories and unexamined stories and so much shame that my spending wasn’t clean. It was weighted with morality. And so even if I had a budget, I would shame myself if I did it wrong or if I went over basically like I was undermining myself is the best way to put it.
Keina: How long ago did you use Ynab?
Emily: Years, maybe 10 years ago. Maybe not quite that long, but it’s been a while and then it just became too sticky of a wicket. I don’t quite remember where I fell off.
Keina: I love your language, too sticky of a wicket. So I’m curious how you feel about, I mean I want to go back in and pull some other things out, but just thinking about the fact that you had an old system. So I think about something that I call like system shame. Like there’s some underlying thought that nothing is going to work for me. Like I’ve tried it and it’s still not working. And you and Richard have been married what? Like 23?
Emily: Yeah, I think it’ll be 19 in September.
Keina: Oh, 19. Okay. Not even 20. See I can’t even do math. Yeah.
Emily: Yeah, I think close enough. Yeah.
Keina: I gave you a few extra years.
Emily: I’ll take it.
Keina: You’ve been married for over or just under, excuse me, 20 years. And basically tell me how your system is working now from in the past? You’ve used ynab untll now. Like what feels different?
Emily: Oh, that’s such a good question. I think I’ve kind of blocked out a lot of this stuff because I think Ynab was a positive money experience so I kind of forgot about it until now. I’ve been so focused on the negative. But I think it goes back to what’s different now, is I feel like tears welling up because I feel so much relief just even thinking about it. The weight of money shame is mostly gone and well on my way. It’s still a little bit weighted with morality, but I can see my, that’s just like a brain rewiring and reminding myself game and like that will come away soon. So what’s different is I am not FU spending it all feels cleaner and like I get to decide. I now can bring consciousness to spending and to money and I get to decide where I want to spend it in, in line with my values and of course working with my husband. And so it feels intentional and not restrictive. It feels expansive and yeah, intentional.
Keina: What’s some of the like FU spending? Like give us an example.
Emily: That’s a better way to put it.
Keina: Listen. You can use whichever language you prefer.
Emily: So I think of it as just through our talks, I think of it as like going to the gas station and it’s a combination through working through money. I’ve also worked through a lot of food stuff just because they’re to me so intertwined.
Keina: Very intertwined. I agree.
Emily: And so I think, I would like, I have four kids and I homeschool them and my husband used to be out of town, like work out of town nine months of the year. So if I was in town, because we also live 30 minutes outside of a city, so if I was in town by myself, I’d feel like I was entitled to a treat. Whether I craved it, whether it was in my budget, it was like.
Keina: You needed a reward.
Emily: Yeah. But it was weird because even if I didn’t want it, it felt like I needed to and that was all wrapped up. There’s a self-sabotage element to it and like, I don’t know it’s hard to put into words. It’s just like mostly gone now. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t have good words for it. So like I would go into Wawa gas station here and buy a smoothie or buy something sweet or buy a sandwich or that sort of thing. And it kind of felt like, yeah, this isn’t within my food goals or like my food values or what I want to do today or it’s not within my budget but like FU, like I deserve it. You’re not going to tell me what to do.
Keina: It’s like rebellion.
Emily: Life or budget, yeah, exactly.
Keina: I feel like when that shows up in spending though, it’s also if we could like have a big pause button in our life, there’s an emotion attached to it.
Emily: Oh heck yeah.
Keina: And I get what you’re saying and having these like strong urges that you’re like, no, it’s like volcanic, it’s bowling, right? But sometimes you don’t have the words or in that moment aren’t able to use like resources that you might be able to employ to get yourself to just like be able to pause to make a decision.
Emily: I think you nailed it. Like the pause doesn’t feel available and whatever emotion it is that is burbling under the surface, that spending like temporarily interrupts it, like it’s a way of buffering.
Keina: But then what’s really, from like a psychological perspective, what’s funny is you do it and then you speaking about the shame, right? Then there’s a whole other emotional thing that happens where then you start to talk to yourself about how you shouldn’t have done that, right?
Emily: Yes, just like food.
Keina: I was leaving it open-ended because I think it’s food related. It is money related, but it’s being able to basically to be able to hug yourself almost and say like you’re going to be okay even if you say no to this. Like reminding yourself how you’re going to feel on the other side. And I know that sounds like not even woowo, but like yeah that sounds good, but we have to be able to name, the like this is an urge and I’m going to be okay when I wake up tomorrow and I realize like I haven’t eaten the whole candy bar or I wake up tomorrow and I realize I didn’t spend the hundred dollars to buy the things in my Amazon cart. Like being more connected to the sensation on the other side of it versus basic. I mean I’m going to use this and I don’t mean it in any shameful way, falling victim to ourselves, right? Where you’re like you just allow yourself to do it because you can either feel the emotion of saying no to the urge or you have to feel the emotion of saying yes to the urge and feeling bad about it and it’s like which one of those things do you do? And then also it’s narrating the person that you’re becoming and I think naming that that is just really hard work.
Emily: Yes. And this is actually really helpful for me in unpacking it. I appreciate it. And like there’s also an element of, I feel like you are really nailing it. It’s like on the one hand using shame as a motivator or an accountability tool, but on the other hand using compassion and turning around and like looking at what you actually need and the shame just feels more shame and more a few spending and the compassion lets me know that I can take care of myself and that my body can depend on me and I’m like seeing myself and what I need. Yeah. That’s fascinating. I hadn’t gotten there.
Keina: I mean essentially you’re raising up a different version of yourself. I mean you’re a mother, right? So I think it’s also thinking about it from this like motherly perspective, if this was happening with your child, right? You would have that compassion, you would kneel down and be like, hey, this is what’s happening. It’s okay. We’re going to like go to sleep, get a drink of water or whatever it is, like you would be able to help them regulate. And having that set of tools for ourself, especially as adults it is difficult. And so I want to name that it can be difficult and challenging but it doesn’t mean that you can’t do it.
Emily: Exactly.
Keina: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. Absolutely.
Keina: Maybe we’ve kind of covered this, but I’m curious for you. I feel like we’ve talked about shame a lot, which is actually an emotion I wasn’t able to name for myself until like two or three years ago. I was like, oh is that what they call it? Shame.
Emily: Yes.
Keina: That’s cool. But what for you, like what’s working for you to rewire the shame when it comes to money and it doesn’t have to work all the time Emily because I know you want to like have a hundred percent all boxes marked.
Emily: Yeah, I feel so much relief. Like no, I was feeling like a well of gratitude and like again tears of relief. What’s worked for me is over and over like coming to you and feeling, bringing my ladder of shame and being like, oh Keina’s not going to like this. And all week me being like, Keina’s not going to like this. This is not good. The morality police of Keina are going to not like this. And then in every session you just bring kindness and calm attitude and you don’t like say that I effed up and just that modeling is just incredible. But it’s taken over and over and over and over. I think maybe it took even 10 sessions before I was like, oh you’re just not going to shame me about this, aren’t you?
Keina: I think you had an aha moment where, what are some of the things that have been on your platter of shame? Because we started. I’m just looking.
Emily: We started in March.
Keina: You had a consult with me in February. Yeah. And then we started working together in March.
Emily: On the platter of shame that I’m not spending money on the right things that I am, it was over budget, like back to the morality. My parents and Richard’s parents have a certain idea about like what’s healthy and what should be spent on. So like that’s playing out in the background and you just brought none of that. And then also you said that we were underfunded versus overspending and that felt so good because I knew somewhere in my body that we were not making enough money and it could have been different and it still would’ve been morally neutral. But to me the thought that we were overspending back then would’ve really felt like, oh I’m really messing up. This is wrong. But like it was helpful for you to say we were underfunded because I felt like you were trying so hard even with you and our budget, with you and we still just like, it was still just not coming together. And so that was just such a beautiful way to put it. And because you are the expert, I felt like I could just like believe you. And you don’t blow smoke. So like I just knew that oh if we were overspending, you would’ve told me. So I just like could like, oh we’re just underfunded and like that was such a relief.
Keina: Well that was one of the reasons, well there’s a couple of reasons but one of the things I wanted to bring you on the podcast about, was because you told me in one of our last calls that one of your fears was basically that I was going to tell you where this process was. We’re going to reveal that like you guys just didn’t have enough money. Which I think that’s a real fear for people and I wanted to have a conversation about that because I wanted to be able to give other people that are listening just a way to think about that if they have a similar fear. But I’m curious just to give people some additional context. Because when you and I first had a consult, we had a consult together and then I had like a mini consult with your husband as well.
Emily: Yeah. So helpful. Yeah.
Keina: And we talked about just like how your finances had changed over the years. So your husband’s work, he was making more money, he took a pay cut and you guys had experienced some shifts with how you were feeling, like whether or not you had enough money. I can’t even remember if when he was making more money you still felt like you didn’t have enough or if things felt tight.
Emily: We’ve just never really had a plan except when we were using Ynab. But I didn’t have, it was such a long time ago that I didn’t have, definitely not the consciousness about money but also not the other, I’ve been in a work with like a teacher for the past eight years and so like I really leveled up how I relate to myself and shame and relationships and all these other things. And so money was like the last like huge gaping hole that I was just not dealing with. So it’s just never been intentional. And so yeah, like it certainly wasn’t as tight as it is now, but there are so many things to spend money on, especially with four kids and especially if you’re not paying attention. So like we had no problem using it all up, you know? Yeah.
Keina: And I also remember one of your things on our consult, you were like, I need money for home repairs and auto maintenance. Like I think auto maintenance was higher than home repairs. Auto maintenance is your trigger.
Emily: And I don’t know if I told you this but I was like an hour and a half away at a state park and it was like 5:00 PM and it was like in a totally different direction than where my in-laws are and all that kind of stuff. And my car just would not start. And that is like, oh my god, it brings up so much unsafety in me. And I was like annoyed. It was hot, I was tired. I had two fussy kids, it was not pleasant, but I just had no panic. I was just like, whatever, it’ll be a pain in the ass. It might be a long night. And it all worked out. A park ranger was able to start it kind of through some ingenuity, but like there wasn’t that rushing panic, because like I knew that we would have the money for the repairs. I knew it would work out. It was just inconvenient.
Keina: I mean, yeah. I think one of the things that I’ve seen shift in you just from call to call is I think everything that you would bring to me in the beginning that felt unplanned was like a level 10.
Emily: Yeah.
Keina: And it’s like Keina, this is happening, right? And everything was a 10, it might have been a 15 at times, but I think I’ve seen your ability to make decisions that are going to take care of your household and bring you through the other side. Because in the beginning there was definitely some car stuff that you told me about. You didn’t tell me how you felt with the battery on your car. So I missed that. But I do remember you telling me about the battery because you were like, oh that was for the car, like I remember that conversation.
Emily: No big deal.
Keina: But your level of like calmness and knowing I think like you’ll be okay. Even one of the examples that I think about with you is recently going to the dentist and like you had to put a $300 charge on your credit card, but even the way in which you were able to explain the charge didn’t seem triggered as I think in working with you in like March or April it would’ve been a level 20. We’ve gone now definitely above 10. I feel like you are much calmer even to be able to hear like, Emily, you guys are still underfunded in some ways. How can we be creative about closing the gap and creating some extra income so that way you have some more space, you can be able to save a little bit more money, do more of the things that make sense. Because I agree with you, I don’t think that you and Richard are doing anything crazy wild, going to Bora Bora or anything of that nature.
Emily: Classic. Yeah.
Keina: So I guess I’m just wanting to echo and be a mirror for you in the ways that I’ve seen you change over the last couple months that we’ve been working together.
Emily: Because I think I had a steal story that we were doing it wrong and that we were, terrible people isn’t quite exactly right. But just some kind of moral failing, like irrevocable moral failing, it was fuzzy but it was like the lens I was looking at it through.
Keina: How have money conversations changed in between you and your husband? Because I should also note that you are the only one working with me. Granted, we’re managing the whole family’s finances.
Emily: It’s changed everything. And that happened really fast, like I think from, as you said, you had the like mini consult with Richard and I just knew that this was not something I was going to be able to do because what you’ve been able to do is, I think of you as like taking me like by the armpits and like holding me up like seriously. So I pictured in my head, seriously like holding me up while the like shame collapse is hitting me and like letting me get used to it and letting me metabolize it and get it through so I don’t feel it anymore. While also getting our money under control and like so many things are happening at once that like I couldn’t regulate well enough to be able to look at my money. Like I needed your scaffolding, maybe we can think of me as like a building you were holding up. But like, I think of it as like the armpit.
Keina: I give swim lessons. That’s what I was hearing.
Emily: This is a weird analogy. You literally held me up so that I could look at it and you didn’t let me collapse. I’m like, what a gift. I got far away from that Richard part. So while you were holding me up, I then had, because Richard would do this thing like every three months he would like ignore money and that every three months like have a total shame spiral about it. And I would hear it through the lens of, more shame of like, you are doing a terrible job and you’re failing us and you’re hurting me. And that’s not how he meant it, but that’s how I was internalizing it. And so there’s some analogy, but you giving me the space to heal myself and heal all these stories and put down the shame, then I could bring my full self to the marriage around money. And I could actually hear him and actually have a conversation. I mean, and that happened so soon. I feel like that happened after the consult. Like there was just an incredible shift. It’s changed so many parts of our marriage. Like having this has also helped me tell him like what I need in the marriage in a much more conscious way. It’s just changed so much about how we communicate and improve so much.
Keina: Do you have any like tangible examples if you can think of any?
Emily: Yeah, so I homeschool my kids and I’ve owned businesses for a long time, but we were underfunded and so over time, and that’s a whole nother good topic, but you told me that we needed to make more money and for lots of reasons that wasn’t really going to be something Richard could do. And I haven’t worked outside the home since I had my son 18 years ago. So it’s been a really long time and I had stories about that as well. So eventually I was able to see that and take the steps and do that and as I knew that I was going to be having my full-time business during the week and raising my kids, homeschooling them. And then on Friday, Saturday, Sunday working outside the home, I was like, I’m no longer a stay at home mom. And like, you got to step up buddy because like this is too much. And it just felt so clear and I didn’t bring so much shame to him and it just felt like really clear what I needed to do and what I needed from him. And I think before this I would’ve been so mired down in the shame and overwhelmed that I wouldn’t have been able to see it through. So like really profound.
Keina: I love that. How has it changed you as a mother?
Emily: Oh my god. Yeah, I was thinking about that, because it happened a few months ago, but I really had stories that I owed my children monetary things and that was like a really, you had to just keep telling me. And so over and over you had to tell me that and I really didn’t believe you. Like I heard you intellectually but it was not and because you’re the expert, like I have the mentality that I’ve hired an expert and I’m going to do what they say. Like I researched that you were the right person for me. And so I like believed you and I implemented it but I did not. Or I heard you but I did not believe it. So I’m trying to think of the example. I think it was, oh it was around birthdays and I had like a monetary amount that I gave to each child and they budgeted it because we do have a lot of money conversations here and so they knew how much they were getting and my other two kids had already had birthdays this year.
So I felt like a standard was set and that was really helpful to think about and that’s still a hard, the birthday stuff is still a hard one for me. But where it really landed and made such a big difference was I felt like I owed them in more granular ways, like if they really wanted a particular cereal, like I felt bad not getting it. A lot, again around food. And we really like work through that a lot. And I’m slowly teasing apart that just because they really want something doesn’t mean that I need to give it to them, which like of course in other aspects of parenting, this is not a problem. But somehow with money, that story was really loud and it was excruciating. And so that has been such a relief. And actually it was really reinforced because one of my kids was dog sitting further his grandparents and they gave him like a $50 food budget for the week and he hoarded that money and got the fewest things possible and I was like, oh, he just wants me to spend my money spending, he doesn’t want to spend his money, which is so eye-opening. Like I’m not depriving them, I’m stewarding my money.
Keina: I think, yeah, I feel like you’ve had a lot of shifts just in how, because for people that are working with me, I’m like, you could be doing the same thing buying the cereal, but the reason you’re buying it might change.
Emily: 1000% yes.
Keina: I just want you to investigate the underlying beliefs or the underlying reasons that we do anything. And if you like them, keep them. If you don’t then you might want to shift. And yes, my education background was like let’s talk about equality and equity because everybody have to get the same thing.
Emily: That’s how I was raised and it’s in their heart.
Keina: And I think we talked a lot about your upbringing, Richard’s upbringing, what you see your parents being able to do versus what you guys are able to do financially and just sifting through that. Like you and Richard are still really young, right? And so what are you going to be able to create in the next 20 years because of this work? And then also in 20 years, what are you able to support your kids doing because of the fact that you and your husband invested in coaching and you are now more clear on what it is that you want to do when it comes to how you spend money, how you think about money, what you say yes to, what you say no to. And it doesn’t have to be like you’ve used the word morality a lot. It doesn’t have to be tied to morality, it doesn’t have to be tied towards restriction. But these are the things that we value as a family and that’s why we’re keeping this set of things versus we don’t value this as much so we are letting these things go because in this season they may not serve us.
Emily: Exactly. And living in line with my values feels so much better as opposed to doing it out of guilt or shoulds or anything like that. Like I’m making conscious decisions based on my values.
Keina: Yeah. I’m very sensitive to the fact that you have four kids and especially with the teacher and me, I’m like, you’re homeschooling and we’ve talked about like your kids reading tutoring, right? And like things that are important and how do we keep the important stuff so we can make sure your kids get what they need. And then also balanced where things need to be balanced in terms of like, okay, well this might be something that maybe right now you’re not doing it as frequently because we want to understand the trade-offs. And I would say even giving your kids an unlimited access to an allowance would be a trade-off that may not allow you guys to spend $500 a month or what have you on reading tutoring if this is just a way in which money can just escape us. So I feel like we’ve looked at a lot of those things as well.
Emily: Exactly.
Keina: What are you most proud of? I’m curious.
Emily: I’m really proud that in my total like mock 20 freakout state, I had the agency and clarity to hire you. I heard you on someone’s podcast or something in somewhere and I was like, she’s it, because my radar had been out and then I listened to a few of the really early podcasts and I just love the results that you got and how you spoke about money and your clarity and it just felt so aligned and I’m so grateful that I was able to do this for myself. And it’s a scary thing spending a lot of money when you’re already in debt and you already know that you’re underfunded. I would not have put it that way, but you know that you’re not making enough money. It’s a scary thing to then spend more money. But I knew I have tried so many different things and I knew I needed you to hold me up by my arm so I didn’t fall
Keina: I love that analogy. It makes me think of being in the wave pool, you know that wave pool at like water parks. And you’re getting hit, but if you know somebody’s there to help you while you’re getting hit, you still get hit but.
Emily: It was excruciating but I didn’t collapse and drown. Like you literally held me up and you held a mirror of like, you don’t need to feel shame about this.
Keina: I mean I wanted people to hear your story because I think that so many times when we go to change something in our life, we, and myself included believe that things have to be very linear. They’re not allowed to be messy. And sometimes the work gets, just to be honest, the work gets messier before it gets better.
Emily: Heck yeah. It’s like cleaning out a closet.
Keina: Yes or I explain to people like, it might feel like you’re standing in front of a fire hydrant, but I promise I’ll be here with a towel to like dry you off. And I think in the first few months of our relationship together, I don’t even know if you were looking at the spreadsheet at all. You’re just like, yep, I hear you but I know from my work with clients that you’re going to have some lucid moments where you come to.
Emily: The perfect way to put it.
Keina: You’re going to pull the information that you need and I just want people to come. I am like, if you show up, that’s the hardest part. And in showing up, you are going to get out of it what you need. And I think that probably in the last, two months of our work together, have probably been, I shouldn’t say the most impactful, that’s not right to say the most impactful, but I’m saying that in the sense of you being able to reflect back to be like, oh, this is what you’re talking about Keina. And being able to have some of those conversations that I think have moved things forward most because in the conversation about us being underfunded, you’ve went out and you’ve gotten a job that’s now bringing in more cashflow. So we can even talk about what is that cashflow for? Like we can have these meaningful conversations to say like, if you guys have an income goal as a family, what does that look like? What does it mean for you? And I don’t think that there’s the underlying shame that makes it mean something that you and Richard have done something wrong.
Emily: Yes, exactly. And I think, we’ve never talked about this, but you in the early days, like you just did the spreadsheet for me and we didn’t really even talk about the systems of it and you didn’t push too hard for me to get more income. Like it was a gradual process and I assume it was intentional and it was just so good because I really needed that time just to like get my feet under me and just even be able to like breathe while looking at. So that was so helpful that it was like bit by bit because it took me a few months to be able to come to grips that I needed extra income and for me to feel the locus of control about it, like feel like this is something I wanted and not that I was just like signing off on it because you told me to.
And I had a lot, I don’t know that we talked about it that much, but I had a lot of resistance to it at first and like we looked at gig economy kind of stuff and I don’t know, I feel like you gave me the space to like work it through, whereas I think it could be tempting from your point of view to make sure we get maximum income put and like really ram it at me. But you were so wise and gentle in like really titrating it and letting me recover and then like level up each time.
Keina: Well I mean I think the educator in me, just knowing from teaching real kids, the thing that, and it’s no different with adults. Like you want to meet people where they are, there’s an entry point. Being able to meet you where you are is much more impactful than yelling at you. And that’s one of the ways I hope that people listening to me or even clients can understand that I’m different. Like the thing that I don’t like about social media when it comes to doing the financial work is like people are screaming, I paid off $50,000 in debt in two weeks or whatever. But my thing is, but are you able to maintain it? Can you sustain it? Who did you become while doing it? And so I would rather someone, it take 12 months or 18 months for them to pay off debt that maybe someone else would be like, you could have paid that off in three months, if it means that in that 12 to 18 months you became someone new.
Because it’s so important to think about like who are you going to be after that experience to your point of like food or like weight gain or any of those things, right? Like you can go do a juice cleanse and get the scale to like move down, but who are you going to be once you get to eat a hamburger again? Those are the things that I’m thinking about. And I want you to be able to find your baseline and your balance. And I generally know and working with clients, I’m like, okay, we can like push a little harder here or be able to have some conversations that are a little bit more like, hey, we need to have a come to Jesus moment. Like, what do you want to do? Or how do you want to feel in this next week? And so no, I think you’ve done a fabulous job.
Emily: We talked about me getting a job or we needed extra income, but like a few times just like sprinkled in. But then when you really had to come to Jesus moment, like I was ready for it and I just don’t know how you, it was amazing.
Keina: I feel like I probably said it a number of times, but also in managing your sheet, like as we’re like, hey, open up your spreadsheet and like nothing. I wasn’t worried about any lights being turned off. If light is getting turned off, I’d be like, listen, listen
Emily: Yeah. We can’t mess around.
Keina: But no, you were listening and I knew in what points your cup is full, being able to listen to what’s happening in your household. I got pretty good at reading your face. So like money is something that is very emotional and how do I meet you where you are to be able to understand what’s going on with your kids, what’s going on with you and Richard also what feels like super important to you. Like you telling me like, no, there’s somebody’s birthday coming up, right? And like Okie needs this. You don’t understand Keina, she has to have this cake. And so how do we get her to have that cake, right? And for you to be able to make sure your kids feel loved and that you guys get to show up. And also balancing that with like, but we also need to save money for auto maintenance. And so how do we find that happy medium for you and not make budgeting something that you’re like, well see this is why I never budget because it never works out.
Emily: Exactly.
Keina: That was my hidden script the whole time.
Emily: Well it was good. So good.
Keina: Is there any questions or anything you wanted to talk about that I didn’t ask you about?
Emily: I don’t think so. And I don’t know if this is helpful or not, but I’m so amazed by how good it feels as a stay at home mother to be, because I’ve had businesses, but okay, I think my concept has really gotten a boost by making money. And I think I realized I had a lot of FU around money too. I believe like success intolerance was coming into it and that’s still coming up, but I’m now facing it. So it’s just so fascinating how many levels and different ways that money is showing up for me and how many different ways I was intolerant to it. Because you would think like success is positive, but like that would even, I think I really, and I’m still working through it, but I think I have a story that I can’t be trusted with money.
And so I almost want to spend it really fast so that, I don’t know, it doesn’t really make sense when you say it out. And so bringing in more money and working and showing up and getting a paycheck, it’s just been really validating. And it’s a complicated situation because I grew up in the suburbs of DC to a pretty wealthy family. And I think I took on ideas of what jobs were, I don’t know, some gross elitist. I don’t have good words for it, and so I’m working at a gas station, a really wonderful gas station that’s employee owned and all of that. But I had to kind of deal with some stuff around what people would think, like some ego stuff. But also like I love this version of myself that my family needed me and I showed up and did the thing. Like that’s almost the best part of this whole thing. Like, I mean, the best part is being able to look money is dead on, but I just love who I’m becoming and to the armpits, I needed you to hold me up so I could get there. Like, so good.
Keina: I mean you’ve done a phenomenal job in terms of just like anybody who’s done any type of self-work, but that’s hard work. And I think you have done every situation. You’re like, alright, like you’ve sat with it, you’ve had the conversations, the internal work, you’ve done all of those things. I know I’m really excited for you even with the extra money coming in where it’s going. But I also think about, I think a lot about your legacy. Like we’ve talked about your mother and her thoughts about where you’re working. But also like you and Richard from the background you do, like that you’re from, there is money in your family. But I think about like if there’s money that’s left to you that you are able to confidently manage that money, right? And not thinking about like, dang, that money just slipped through our fingers. And so you have positioned yourself to just be able to have different conversations over and over again. And I mean, you moved outta DC and you live, I mean, I want to call it a farm. I’ve never actually seen it.
Emily: Yeah it’s a farm.
Keina: But like you’ve created a different life and one that you love. And don’t worry about what people say here because I probably would rather live where you live, where you can like walk on land and have grass in between your toes and all the things. So I just want you to hear that you have done a phenomenal job and I think you’re setting yourself up as well to say like, what and who do I want to be in this next season? Especially as like having this identity of a stay-at-home mom and now I can be a working mom.
Emily: And I’m capable of that. When you said I was doing a phenomenal job, remember like, I don’t know, maybe a month ago you’re like, you’re not messing up, you’re actually doing a good job. And I was just like. And I think that speaks to it too. Like this stuff is so ingrained that I don’t trust myself. So I needed you to externally validate me. And obviously that will become an inside job, but I think that’s also the value of having a coach is like, I believe you when you say that. I wouldn’t have if it was just coming from me. So the external validation so that I can’t move the goalposts because that’s what I do is I just move the goalposts so fast I can’t keep up. And you’re just saying you’re doing a good job. Like then I could really hear it and like my nervous system could hear it.
Keina: I think people, what they really need is a list of wins that don’t look like I saved $15,000.
Emily: Yes.
Keina: I paid off $20,000. Like I think you need to know what does winning and success look like for me where I’m right now? And like, that’s the only thing that I reflected back to you. Like, look, two weeks ago you didn’t have money when Richard’s paycheck came in, now you have money, right? Like three months ago you weren’t sure if you could pay the electric bill on time. Now it’s getting paid on time and in full. I wanted you to see the movement from the perspective of where I started to where I am now. Because that’s what matters the most to look at your current picture and not to be comparing yourself to like Oprah, because that’s not realistic.
Emily: Come on. What the heck?
Keina: Yeah. So I wasn’t telling you anything that wasn’t actually true. I was just giving you words.
Emily: Oh, I know. But I couldn’t, I was like kind of shocked, like I told everyone.
Keina: You’re so funny.
Emily: And I ask you to tell your mom, remember?
Keina: My mom is a fan of all of my clients.
Emily: I want to win at this Keina.
Keina: Don’t worry. I’ll put in some extra points for you.
Emily: Thank you.
Keina: Is there anything that you would say to someone who might be in a similar financial situation as you?
Emily: Good question. Yeah, so I think you made the best point that showing up because like, I would dread it in the beginning because I had a shame story and I was so convinced you were going to shame me, not because of anything you did, but my story was just so tight and whatever. So it might feel impossible. It might feel your situation is so much more dire. There are so many layers, there are so much that you have to work through, maybe husbands and kids and all the things, but like if you can just get yourself to the calls with Keina, like she will hold you up in whatever way that works for you. Maybe you don’t want her to hold you up by your armpits. It really does it for me. But, just like get to the calls, and Keina will do her magic like so good. And it happens so fast, you just got to show up.
Keina: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and being on my podcast. I appreciate it.
Emily: Oh my God, I appreciate you Keina. Everyone knows about you.
Keina: And if you’re listening and Emily’s story resonates with you, I would definitely invite you to apply to work with me. You can see if she’s really telling the truth or she just drank the Keina Kool-Aid, as someone else would say. But thank you so much for tuning in and until next week.
Outro: Thank you so much for listening to Money Files. If you’re ready to take the next step to reach your financial goals, head to www.wealthovernow.com/appointment and let’s get started.
